Electrician Help

[TrailHunter]

When I built my garage I didn’t want to deal with GFCI outlets popping and having to track it down... (I put a lot... some under work benches) so I installed GFCI breakers at the main panel instead. Only negative being it’s a $35 breaker vs $5 for a standard 20amp. Haven’t popped a breaker yet though.

 

[WJCO]

When I built my garage I didn’t want to deal with GFCI outlets popping and having to track it down... (I put a lot... some under work benches) so I installed GFCI breakers at the main panel instead. Only negative being it’s a $35 breaker vs $5 for a standard 20amp. Haven’t popped a breaker yet though.

Would that still protect you if the garage floor was wet and there was a direct short near the outlet?

 

[OverlanderJK]

So here’s the reason they do this, the code REQUIRES GFCI protection at those locations you mentioned. It is also required outdoors and some other locations. BUT GFCI outlets are more expensive. You can actually feed conventional outlets downstream from a GFCI (come off bottom terminals instead of just a parallel pigtail) which makes the regular outlet GFCI protected. So the builder will install one GFCI outlet and then feed the other outlets required to be GFCI protected from there. Hope that makes sense. I believe the code also states that any outlet protected by a GFCI (breaker or receptacle) should be labeled as such. But that may be a newer requirement. Bottom line is it’s a few bucks cheaper to do it this way. But when you’re building thousands of houses, it adds up.


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Is the garage considered outside? Curious why it seems multiple people have theirs in the garage for bathrooms.


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[TrailHunter]

Would that still protect you if the garage floor was wet and there was a direct short near the outlet?

I don’t see why not... it’s the same concept.. and per code. I did build my concrete stem walls about 16” tall though... and that puts the outlets at around 20”. What isn’t per code is the slab. California building code requires the floor in a garage to be sloped for drainage.. 1/8 to 1/4” per foot.. Anyone who uses their garage as a shop knows that would suck balls.

 

[Speedy_RCW]

Is the garage considered outside? Curious why it seems multiple people have theirs in the garage for bathrooms.


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GFCI is also required in the garage.


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[Speedy_RCW]

Would that still protect you if the garage floor was wet and there was a direct short near the outlet?

Yes, a GFCI breaker will function the same way as a GFCI receptacle. The device measures the current going out and compares it to the current coming back. If there is a difference of 4-6mA it will trip. Meaning the current is going to ground somewhere, likely through a person. Conventional breakers only protect from overload and serve to protect the wiring not a person.

I don’t see why not... it’s the same concept.. and per code. I did build my concrete stem walls about 16” tall though... and that puts the outlets at around 20”. What isn’t per code is the slab. California building code requires the floor in a garage to be sloped 1/4” per foot... Thats 5” in 20ft. Anyone who uses their garage as a shop knows that would suck balls.

If I recall correctly, anything installed below 18” in a garage must meet the requirements for a hazardous location which is a whole other can of worms and equipment gets really expensive when it’s explosion-proof. Most garage receptacles are installed above 4 feet but this isn’t a requirement at least in regards to national code.



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[WJCO]

Yes, a GFCI breaker will function the same way as a GFCI receptacle. The device measures the current going out and compares it to the current coming back. If there is a difference of 4-6mA it will trip. Meaning the current is going to ground somewhere, likely through a person. Conventional breakers only protect from overload and serve to protect the wiring not a person.

Good info. Thanks.

 

[TrailHunter]

If I recall correctly, anything installed below 18” in a garage must meet the requirements for a hazardous location which is a whole other can of worms and equipment gets really expensive when it’s explosion-proof. Most garage receptacles are installed above 4 feet but this isn’t a requirement at least in regards to national code.

That may be true for a commercial building... but in residential there is no minimum height.

 

[Lojo]

I know when I built homes we always tied exterior to the garage. It’s what most cities required per building code. I believe they considered garage as part of exterior. Then bathrooms were tied together and kitchen on its own. But that was 11 years ago so could have changed a bit.


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[Speedy_RCW]

That may be true for a commercial building... but in residential there is no minimum height.

You’re probably right. It’s been a long time since I looked through the code book and never did much residential (that was inspected anyway). I would say the 18” height would be safer to lessen the possibility of igniting any flammable vapor that could typically be found in a garage. One reason you normally see gas water heaters installed on 18” pedestals in the garage. Above 4 foot is more practical in my eyes to keep them above work benches or shit you lean up against the wall.


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[TrailHunter]

... I would say the 18” height would be safer to lessen the possibility of igniting any flammable vapor that could typically be found in a garage. One reason you normally see gas water heaters installed on 18” pedestals in the garage. Above 4 foot is more practical in my eyes to keep them above work benches or shit you lean up against the wall.


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Agreed.

You should see what Los Angeles makes us do in “Methane Zones” when its slab on grade... Multiple Low & High Vents in a garage (looks like swiss cheese) and Piped venting in Livable spaces.

I’m guessing you were an Electrical Contractor at some point... you know your shit. [emoji1417]

 

[jesse3638]

Agreed.

You should see what Los Angeles makes us do in “Methane Zones” when its slab on grade... Multiple Low & High Vents in a garage (looks like swiss cheese) and Piped venting in Livable spaces.

I’m guessing you were an Electrical Contractor at some point... you know your shit. [emoji1417]

I hear LA county is much more of a pain in the ass than San Bernardino county. My coworker is a GC as is his dad and he pretty much refuses to build on the LA side of Wrightwood because of it.

 

[Speedy_RCW]

Agreed.

You should see what Los Angeles makes us do in “Methane Zones” when its slab on grade... Multiple Low & High Vents in a garage (looks like swiss cheese) and Piped venting in Livable spaces.

I’m guessing you were an Electrical Contractor at some point... you know your shit. [emoji1417]

Some codes are just crazy but without them there’d be a lot more sketchy shit out there. Never was a contractor but did a little construction. Mostly maintenance. Now I just try to keep the lights on versus making them turn on. Thanks for the compliment though. :thumb:


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