Shots Fired!

[10frank9]

Unmmmm... The 357 might... But not the 9mm. Are you comparing hydrashocks to ball??

Comparing and arguing different calibers effectiveness on one shot stops is an endless argument. I own all 3 of the mentions calibers. The reason I prefer my .45 over my .357 is simply that I'm not a huge fan of revolvers. (Despite owning several)


It all boils down to shot placement. A .22short placed correctly will drop a man.


Shoot what you like to shoot, but practice frequently, get familiar with it, and remember, anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice! Double tap my friend!

Sounds familiar

I actually switched all my pistols to 9mm. Because, I shoot them lights out even under stress. Trust me when I say I've seen well placed 9's drop people. I've also seen .45's make others laugh. Shot placement. Period.

 

[Armydog]

The .357 still out ranks the .45acp on one shot stops. Even certain 9mm rounds do. Tho the old line "I shoot a .45 because they don't make a .46…" is always good!

Actually the .357 magnum has more documented stops for the same reason the 30-06 has more deer harvest than most other rifle calibers. NOT because it's the best round, BUT because it has been in use far longer than other calibers. Traditionally, law enforcement officers carried old school wheel guns most often chambered in the .357 mag. We take the auto-loading handguns like the Glock for granted but these weapons are actually the new kids on the block.

While I am a staunch proponent of the .45 ACP as a defense round and only carry the model 1911 for many reasons that are not directly relevant to this conversation. The truth is that modern bullet designs have closed the performance gap between the mighty .45 and other wimpy-er little hand friendly calibers like the .9mm and the 40 cal. ( a anemic step-child of the original 10mm).

Please DONT EVER CARRY BALL - FMJ ammo for defensive use. The Full Metal Jacket will under perform, over-penetrate without transferring sufficient energy to the target and be inclined to ricochet and put innocent "non-targets" at risk. DONT DO IT. I won't try to argue which specific hollow point to carry. I personally like the social stigma of my Black Talons but new stock is not available and ammo should be rotated and not carried indefinitely.

Just my 10 cents worth of opinion....



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[Armydog]

Sounds familiar

I actually switched all my pistols to 9mm. Because, I shoot them lights out even under stress. Trust me when I say I've seen well placed 9's drop people. I've also seen .45's make others laugh. Shot placement. Period.

To continue the thread hijack.

I agree with several issues raised by others here.

1. Shot placement is key. Properly placed a single shoot can get the job done and eliminate the threat. However, under stress most mortals will loose a considerable amount of practical accuracy, fine motor skills and bowel control. Add to that the fact that the majority of personal defense engagements occur in low light environments with little or no preparation time - SURPRISE, now shoot! Unless you are a sniper engaging a planned target under semi-controlled (planned) conditions you should not depend on ONE SHOT to stop a deadly threat. Controlled pairs, evaluate the threat and repeat as required. Engage until the threat is eliminated.

2. A handgun IS NOT A COMBAT WEAPON. Don't expect a handgun of any caliber to do the job of a rifle. While they can be carried on your person and kept both discrete and readily available until needed. Make no mistake, all handguns are a compromise of some sort in actual combat, self defense or offensive action. Don't bring a handgun when you should have had a rifle. Why do you think so many LEAs have instituted patrol rifle programs or even why the shotgun has almost always been part of American law enforcement? Even more interesting that many European LEAs rely on the sub machine gun so heavily.

3. Carry what you naturally shoot well. Practice with what you actually intend to carry. Practice until it is automatic. Muscle memory will save your life if it ever comes to that dark place. Don't think, do. The first round on target wins. There is no second place in a gunfight

4. Lastly, the best gunfight is the one you avoid. I hope everyone of us NEVER again needs the weapon of our choice for anything other than practice and punching paper.


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[Armydog]

I honestly have never seen or heard of anyone laughing at being shot with a .45 ACP.


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[sean112280]

Unmmmm... The 357 might... But not the 9mm. Are you comparing hydrashocks to ball??

Comparing and arguing different calibers effectiveness on one shot stops is an endless argument. I own all 3 of the mentions calibers. The reason I prefer my .45 over my .357 is simply that I'm not a huge fan of revolvers. (Despite owning several)


It all boils down to shot placement. A .22short placed correctly will drop a man.


Shoot what you like to shoot, but practice frequently, get familiar with it, and remember, anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice! Double tap my friend!

It's not called the double tap anymore...."controlled pair" is the new name. :thumb: I also carry a .45ACP.

 

[Soonerschooner]

Actually a controlled pair is 2 shots fired with two seperate sight pictures, two individual individually aimed shots.
A double tap is technically 2 shots from one sight picture, firing as soon as the weapon recovers from recoil and is back in battery.


Technically speaking…. :twocents:

 

[sean112280]

OK I got that. Controlled pair is more accurate though. But yes you are correct.:thumb:

 

[Soonerschooner]

Actually the .357 magnum has more documented stops for the same reason the 30-06 has more deer harvest than most other rifle calibers. NOT because it's the best round, BUT because it has been in use far longer than other calibers. Traditionally, law enforcement officers carried old school wheel guns most often chambered in the .357 mag. We take the auto-loading handguns like the Glock for granted but these weapons are actually the new kids on the block.

While I am a staunch proponent of the .45 ACP as a defense round and only carry the model 1911 for many reasons that are not directly relevant to this conversation. The truth is that modern bullet designs have closed the performance gap between the mighty .45 and other wimpy-er little hand friendly calibers like the .9mm and the 40 cal. ( a anemic step-child of the original 10mm).

Please DONT EVER CARRY BALL - FMJ ammo for defensive use. The Full Metal Jacket will under perform, over-penetrate without transferring sufficient energy to the target and be inclined to ricochet and put innocent "non-targets" at risk. DONT DO IT. I won't try to argue which specific hollow point to carry. I personally like the social stigma of my Black Talons but new stock is not available and ammo should be rotated and not carried indefinitely.

Just my 10 cents worth of opinion....



Sent from my iPad using WAYALIFE mobile app.......

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on the history/longevity, just like the 30/30 still beats the '06. And ball ammo sucks balls!
With modern JHPs even a lowly .38spc will stop people effectively (except that guy in GA that took 5 to the face @ point blank). I prefer bigger heavy JHP bullets with violent expansion. Hydrashocks do it in most any caliber 9 and above. Shoot what you can accurately hit with under stress. Three .22lrs to the dome are more likely to stop the aggression than 2 misses & a shot to the bicep from a .44mag, doesn't mean we should all carry .22s either.


I think the Wichester Rangers are the Talon minus the lube coating. The boxes are marked LEno my bu that's only a company policy & is hardly enforced by most dealers. Though I have shot some BT's back in the day from an '06! Wish they still made those!!!

 

[Soonerschooner]

I honestly have never seen or heard of anyone laughing at being shot with a .45 ACP.


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I remember the trooper that was killed by a single .22 or .25 under the armpit & vest. Trooper shot the fat bastard 3 times with a .45 center mass from less than 6ft, all center mass. Bullets clogged with his copious adipose tissue never opening. Officer bled out within a minute but Fat Bastard was alive and waiting for back up when they showed.

We watched the dashcam video before shift brief one day.





As an aside, we need a HIJACK emoticon! LOL!!!

 

[Johnlmt33]

I remember the trooper that was killed by a single .22 or .25 under the armpit & vest. Trooper shot the fat bastard 3 times with a .45 center mass from less than 6ft, all center mass. Bullets clogged with his copious adipose tissue never opening. Officer bled out within a minute but Fat Bastard was alive and waiting for back up when they showed.

We watched the dashcam video before shift brief one day.





As an aside, we need a HIJACK emoticon! LOL!!!

I remember that video from the academy. That's why it kills me when the public gets upset when their loved one was shot so many times. You fire till the threat is stopped, climb the ladder - chest neck head.

 

[Redrubi1]

Sounds familiar

I actually switched all my pistols to 9mm. Because, I shoot them lights out even under stress. Trust me when I say I've seen well placed 9's drop people. I've also seen .45's make others laugh. Shot placement. Period.

10 Frank 9 is right on. With good ammunition any 357mag, 357 sig, 9mm., .40. .45 will have about the same stopping power as the other. Shot placement is always key.

 

[Soonerschooner]

I remember that video from the academy. That's why it kills me when the public gets upset when their loved one was shot so many times. You fire till the threat is stopped, climb the ladder - chest neck head.

Yup. We were taught to break down the body for body armor drills. Chest, head, pelvis. Pelvis is rarely covered in body armor & has lots of vesseles & nerves.

 

[Frogmech]

I'm glad your are safe sir. Someone needs to erase stupid before he kills someone! Out of curiosity what are the gun control laws in Philly? Is it as bad as New York and SF? If so...I'm sorry to hear it. If not...your families safety is worth what it cost for what ever caliber you choose to protect you and your love ones.

First off, thank you. All is well and back to normal here in my area of town. And thanks to everyone who voiced concern and offered advice on self protection. I apreciate all your thoughts and opinions.

Second, If by gun control laws you mean concealed carry, all of PA is a SHALL ISSUE state. Meaning that once you fill out the proper paperwork and pay them, they must issue you the permit unless they find you cannot legally posess a firearm or are legally disqualified by their governing regulations. Generally speaking, if you can pass the background screening required to purchase a gun, you can get your license.

In PA the license is called a LTCF, License To Cary Firearms. And yes, I have one. I routinely cary a Kimber Pro CDP II .45 along with my license

I also have several other home defense items inclusive of a 12ga, several other hand guns and a compliment of assorted caliber rifles. My entire family knows how to operate all the weapons and my wife can and does shoot better than I do at times. My daughter keeps a Kel-Tec PMR 30 .22 mag in her dresser that she shoots exceptionally well too. Granted all the shooting is range time and in no way would reflect on our ability to perform under the stress of a real life or death situation, but I'd rather give my family the opportunity to save their lives by keeping weapons in the home versus being helpless victims. God willing, it will never come to that.

 

[dannymalkin]

I thought the bullet hole stickers were cool, thanks for the write up on how to make authentic ones! :cheesy:

 

[Frogmech]

I thought the bullet hole stickers were cool, thanks for the write up on how to make authentic ones! :cheesy:

Now THAT'S funny! :cheesy: