Recent Shooting and Discussion

And for the record, this asshat took an Uber to the school. The rifle was cased (not sure if it was broken down) so it doesn’t surprise me at all that he was able to enter the school unnoticed, even with the weapon.
 
TrailHunter said:
You make some really good points. It’s definitely not black & white. And the AR may be “part” of the problem. Or it may not.

My logic tends to think like this:

1. Mass shootings with semi auto AR.
AR Bannned. (lets pretend they all disappeared)

2. Mass Shootings with semi Auto “Hunting Rifle”. “Hunting Rifle” Banned. (lets pretend they all disappeared)

3. Mass Shootings with semi Auto Pistol..... Banned...

4. Mass Shootings with revolvers.... Banned....

5. Mass Shooting with SA revolvers...
Banned.....

Somewhere in there you may want to re-check Crime and Murder statistics...

I worry it’s a downward slope... caused by a problem.... with most likely the wrong solution.
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Sharkey said:
IMHO, we (as a collective nation) need to stop talking about the proposed solutions that make us feel warm and fuzzy like they will do anything at all in the long run.

It’s time to have the tougher conversation about the decay of our civilization. Our nation has become so incredibly narcissistic that we cannot fathom that another human being could disagree with our own personal views without being a racist, a fascist, a communist, whatever (pick your chosen political side or hateful generalization).

Unless and until we learn to actually give two fucks about each other again, this country will continue on its way to hell in a hand basket.

As the leaders of the free world, it is incredible to me just how uncivilized we have actually become.
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I think the main argument in trying to limit access to weapons like the AR involve the ability to send many more rounds down range in a given time frame from distance than other types of weapons...would you agree that the Las Vegas shooter would most likely have killed far fewer people before responders would have neutralized him (even though he took his own life) had he been armed with a single bolt action rifle?...or the 19 yo kid yesterday?

To Sharkey's point...yes, it seems that we have allowed the values of our forefathers to slide to a point where we have become numb to the barbarism...and my greatest fear is that we begin to start to accept this type of behavior as the norm...

There was a time when I wouldn't hesitate to pull over and help someone with their hood open on the side of the road...day or night...or pick up a hitchhiker on occasion....now, I debate it in my head before doing it (usually no to hitchhikers, even with gas can in hand...unless they don't have their thumb out...and even then it makes me pause).

My wife and I were out wheeling alone last year and came across a camp site in the middle of nowhere...trash everywhere, including beer bottles, a beat up 4x4 pickup truck, and a pair of legs sticking out of a crappy looking tent in the middle of the afternoon...my wife and I looked at each other, shook our heads and kept on driving. Later that night, I told her I was thinking about picking up a shotgun and a .45 for the house & rig...not counting spearguns, I haven't owned a weapon in 30 years...

Sad state of affairs we live in today...
 
Samuelh3 said:
Hell ask the Australians since guns were banned homicides went up 3.2 percent.
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Australia has less than 300 homicides per year. It hardly serves as a viable statistical example of the change, positive or negative, related to changes in gun laws. Even if your 3.2% number was correct, which I don’t think it is, you are talking about a difference of nine people. That’s hardly earth shattering (unless, of course, you are one of the nine). ;)
 
Since the question arose "Why own an AR?" then the question can be arose "Why own a Jeep?" They both have been used in military and war scenarios.

The answer is simple, Because we can. I've never killed anyone with either object, nor do I plan to. And I use them both for recreational purposes.
 
Gbint said:
Does the NRA wield that much power in your country!!! Are people that afraid of them!!


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Unfortunately yes people are afraid of them. Well liberals are because most funds go to people who support firearms in general. So that leaves the liberals mad they aren't getting the money or votes from NRA members.. if the liberals were getting votes you could bet it all that they would be pro gun. They know very well there is a much deeper problem than will be fixed by banning more scary black rifles. Almost every suspect in Mass shootings has shown signs that they could be a problem. Unfortunately everyone wearing their PC badge is too afraid to do anything.

Don't be scared of the NRA, crazies will always find a way to cause mayhem even without scary black rifles.

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Brute said:
To Sharkey's point...yes, it seems that we have allowed the values of our forefathers to slide to a point where we have become numb to the barbarism...and my greatest fear is that we begin to start to accept this type of behavior as the norm...

There was a time when I wouldn't hesitate to pull over and help someone with their hood open on the side of the road...day or night...or pick up a hitchhiker on occasion....now, I debate it in my head before doing it (usually no to hitchhikers, even with gas can in hand...unless they don't have their thumb out...and even then it makes me pause).

My wife and I were out wheeling alone last year and came across a camp site in the middle of nowhere...trash everywhere, including beer bottles, a beat up 4x4 pickup truck, and a pair of legs sticking out of a crappy looking tent in the middle of the afternoon...my wife and I looked at each other, shook our heads and kept on driving. Later that night, I told her I was thinking about picking up a shotgun and a .45 for the house & rig...not counting spearguns, I haven't owned a weapon in 30 years...

Sad state of affairs we live in today...
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Well said.
 
Sharkey said:
Properly set up, an “AR” can be effective both for personal defense and for hunting (provided the size of the game is appropriate for the caliber used).

In the hands of the right person, a bolt action “hunting” rifle with detachable magazines, or a lever-action rifle, are darn near every bit as potentially deadly as an AR/AK in a “mass shooting” situation.

While your question is fair, the real question still needs to be “why are people killing each other?”...not “why did they use an AR to fulfill their intent?” Removing the AR doesn’t remove the intent.
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It's the latest trend in guns, they look cool, what ever it may be. I can't remember exactly when or where i read it but it seems countries which have banned guns have a very high assault and murder rate with knives. China comes to mind but don't quote me on this. Any help is much appreciated.



Samuelh3 said:
Couldn’t agree more. 740,000 murders in 2016. 70,000 involved guns (less than 10%), less than 3000 (less than .5 percent of my math is right) are by ALL rifles not just AR-15s. Tell me why no one is in an uproar about the 670,000 people who have died by other means or even the 737,000 buy weapons other than rifles!? It’s not a gun issue it’s a political/media talking point to get more votes/power. If we are really concerned about preserving life why the HELL are we talking about AR-15s? And if guns were the issue. Why are the 100s of thousands of guns out there jumping out of their lockers and killing people by the millions?

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. Just ask the Jews, the Armenians, Chinese political dissidents, Cambodians, etc. Hell ask the Australians since guns were banned homicides went up 3.2 percent.


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^^^This^^^ I remember watching a movie as a kid called "The Gods Must Be Crazy" (1 or 2 can't remember). Its a comedy about the bushman in Australia being introduced to the modern day. An airplane flys over and the pilot finishes his soda and tosses the bottle out the window. A tribesman finds the discarded bottle and is amazed by it and returns to his tribe to show everyone. Everyone marvels over it and they find many helpful uses for it, water vessel, mortar, rolling pin, etc. One member wants to see it and reaches for it. Instinctively the member holding it turns and hits the other in the head with it. Now its a weapon and evil. They try to get rid of it but it keeps making its way back. Eventually they realize they can't get rid of it and learn to live with it. That it's not evil, use it for its positive qualities, just don't hit someone with it. Same goes here its just an AR not a bottle.
 
Brute said:
I think the main argument in trying to limit access to weapons like the AR involve the ability to send many more rounds down range in a given time frame from distance than other types of weapons...would you agree that the Las Vegas shooter would most likely have killed far fewer people before responders would have neutralized him (even though he took his own life) had he been armed with a single bolt action rifle?...or the 19 yo kid yesterday?
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To answer this in a technical manner... if you swapped out the AR for a bolt in the exact same scenario... Probably less carnage. But “Crazy” will always adapt, resulting in the same outcome.
 
TrailHunter said:
To answer this in a technical manner... if you swapped out the AR for a bolt in the exact same scenario... Probably less carnage. But “Crazy” will always adapt, resulting in the same outcome.
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Boston Marathon bombers, with their pressure cooker bomb, comes to mind. Do they sell that in Canada & Australia? I’m sure they do.


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Brute said:
I think the main argument in trying to limit access to weapons like the AR involve the ability to send many more rounds down range in a given time frame from distance than other types of weapons...would you agree that the Las Vegas shooter would most likely have killed far fewer people before responders would have neutralized him (even though he took his own life) had he been armed with a single bolt action rifle?...or the 19 yo kid yesterday?

To Sharkey's point...yes, it seems that we have allowed the values of our forefathers to slide to a point where we have become numb to the barbarism...and my greatest fear is that we begin to start to accept this type of behavior as the norm...

There was a time when I wouldn't hesitate to pull over and help someone with their hood open on the side of the road...day or night...or pick up a hitchhiker on occasion....now, I debate it in my head before doing it (usually no to hitchhikers, even with gas can in hand...unless they don't have their thumb out...and even then it makes me pause).

My wife and I were out wheeling alone last year and came across a camp site in the middle of nowhere...trash everywhere, including beer bottles, a beat up 4x4 pickup truck, and a pair of legs sticking out of a crappy looking tent in the middle of the afternoon...my wife and I looked at each other, shook our heads and kept on driving. Later that night, I told her I was thinking about picking up a shotgun and a .45 for the house & rig...not counting spearguns, I haven't owned a weapon in 30 years...

Sad state of affairs we live in today...
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Agreed on all points, and I too went several decades without owning a firing weapon. But, I’m not as young as I used to be (which translates to me recognizing that my ability to incapacitate a younger assailant isn’t what it once was) and the world has changed.

Vegas was an oddity for sure. It was pretty much the only situation where a bump stock would be worth a crap (i.e. site picture irrelevant, spraying the crowd is what mattered). That said, I’m convinced the guy (a pilot) would have just flown a plane full of who knows what into the crowd if he didn’t have the firearms.

As for Florida’s recent tragedy, a couple of magazine fed shotguns or lever action rifles would have yielded similar results.
 
WJCO said:
Since the question arose "Why own an AR?" then the question can be arose "Why own a Jeep?" They both have been used in military and war scenarios.

The answer is simple, Because we can. I've never killed anyone with either object, nor do I plan to. And I use them both for recreational purposes.
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I've never killed a deer with a rifle but I have with my Jeep. Also squirrels, and rabbits.
 
kscobra said:
I did watch the news, point being is no man at anytime looking like a student or not should not be able to walk into a school with a long rifle unnoticed. Period. My reason for owning AR-15’s is simple. I built one to hunt coyotes, the other is a target rifle. It’s a cheap round, it’s not a high power rifle as advertised being some states won’t even allow deer hunting with it ( being it is considered to weak). The reason it is used so widely now I believe, is you can purchase one very cheap. It used to be a relatively expensive firearm. Now every fly by night company makes a 500 dollar version.


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only in merika


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