Magazine Product Reviews - Does Anyone Even Care?

If I have to PAY someone on top of giving them free parts to publish a review on a product. I'm suspicious of what the truth is.

I'm sure there are "truths" in what they have to say. I just don't know if it matters if they never have anything bad to say. Of course, that's just me.

A good way to determine how the editors really feel is look at what is on their own personal rigs. So long as they don't get it for free I guess.

To be fair, they all get rigs they build up and work on as a part of their job and really, I see no foul in getting parts. Certainly, nothing is really "free" - everything comes at a price. Again, I just don't know how much their opinion is worth when all you ever hear are good things or enough good things to not bite the hand that feeds you.
 
The magazines are good. They give me something to read while I poop. Also usually some hot women in a few of the adds. Other than that...eh?!
 
The reality is we all have a bias, and frankly I take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt. Do magazines highlight the good? Sometimes, do they hide the bad? Perhaps...

Yes, we ALL have a bias and at least for me, I tend to trust people who are open and honest about theirs. If nothing else, it helps to establish where they're coming from and helps to qualify their answers.

...but sometimes what one feels is a liability, another sees as an asset.

Can't see how something like a winch that doesn't work when you really need it to as being some kind of an asset to anyone but hey, that's just me.

Can folks on forums can be biased? From what I've seen yes, but as you mentioned, enough people over time experiencing the same issue whether good or bad can become a gauge in the decision making process.

And that's the beauty of a forum - it's a living organism and the information on it is constantly evolving. An article published in a magazine is static and dated - the ONLY thing you have to go off of is the word of the author, at the time he or she wrote it and under the watchful eye of the advertiser who provided the product for testing.

Since reviewing a product is a subjective thing, I'm not going to say that someone is being disingenuous or dishonest because their experience is different than mine.

LOL!! Subjective is one way of putting it I suppose. To me, when someone is reviewing a product from someone who pays their bills, I find it difficult to see how they can be "objective". Certainly, the proof is the fact that you never see them publish a scathing but honest review of anything - EVER. But then, that's just what I've seen.

I thought "revolver shackles" were down right dangerous when they came out yet some have found the opposite to be true and still run them with no issues. I wouldn't say they were dishonest about them, just in the minority. That's where looking at the experiences of the majority over time can help you make a better decision.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it. From my perspective, I rarely hear guys talking smack about a product that they just spent good money on. I mean, to do so would be admitting you made a mistake and I don't know too many guys who are willing to do that. No, most will defend what they bought to the bitter end even if you can prove they are mistaken.

Sorry to hear your friends were laid off, my friends have been in the industry for decades and have all been committed life long 4wheelers who have a passion to highlight what great things this sport has to offer.

LOL!! Don't know who your friends are but maybe Steve von Segren will chime in and let us know. As far as guys like Phil Howell goes, I don't know too many guys who've been working the rags longer than him but I do know that Ali Mansour is carry a much bigger load now and so did Pete Trasborg before he passed away.

I'm sure there are plenty of unscrupulous folks in the industry as well as the good.

Never said anyone was "unscrupulous" - just questioned whether or not anyone still cared about a product review in a magazine. Hell, I don't even know too many people who still read a newspaper to find out what's going on with the elections.

Whether reading a mag or forum, everyone needs to do their home work and do what is best for them.

Umm, that is pretty much what I've been saying all along and again, what I'm questioning. I just can't see how reading a review in a magazine amounts to real "homework". But again, that's just me.
 
Not trying to argue with you, my point was both magazines and forums have plenty of opinions, both can be biased, and neither one is necessarily better than the other, yet both can be useful. I find more technical info in an article and more personal opinion on forums, together that info can be beneficial to making decisions. Just my experience....
 
Magazine reviews were pretty much the only thing available back in the day. Especially on the east coast where the off road community is small.

The internet forums and even the reviews from YouTube have changed all that. You can't see any replies from actual users in a magazine article., whereas you can see unlimited replies on forums,etc.

That being said, whenever there is sponsorship there will always be bias.
 
Not trying to argue with you, my point was both magazines and forums have plenty of opinions, both can be biased, and neither one is necessarily better than the other, yet both can be useful.

And I suppose that's were you and I disagree. Forums are FILLED with opinions from regular joe blows but they can be dissected and discussed by people who've had actual first hand experience using the products in question. Magazine try to come across as some kind of an authority when in fact, they're just in the business of selling advertisements. This is the reason why they ONLY publish reviews of products made by manufacturers who advertise in their journals. This is why you will never hear a scathing but honest review of anything, EVER. As I said from the beginning, I used to subscribe and buy magazines all the time back when they were the only source of information but today, I find the content within them to be outdated and of little use. Of course, that's just me. If you find what they have to say useful, I guess they're doing you a service.

I find more technical info in an article and more personal opinion on forums, together that info can be beneficial to making decisions. Just my experience....

And it's been my experience that the articles they publish regarding things like installation write-up to be woefully inadequate. They lack detail, they lack quality photo and of things I really need to see and they lack the kind of interaction and help from others who've installed the same products. But again, that just been my experience.
 
And I suppose that's were you and I disagree. Forums are FILLED with opinions from regular joe blows but they can be dissected and discussed by people who've had actual first hand experience using the products in question. Magazine try to come across as some kind of an authority when in fact, they're just in the business of selling advertisements. This is the reason why they ONLY publish reviews of products made by manufacturers who advertise in their journals. This is why you will never hear a scathing but honest review of anything, EVER. As I said from the beginning, I used to subscribe and buy magazines all the time back when they were the only source of information but today, I find the content within them to be outdated and of little use. Of course, that's just me. If you find what they have to say useful, I guess they're doing you a service.



And it's been my experience that the articles they publish regarding things like installation write-up to be woefully inadequate. They lack detail, they lack quality photo and of things I really need to see and they lack the kind of interaction and help from others who've installed the same products. But again, that just been my experience.

I agree, whole heartedly. I find magazines a waste of money.
 
You know the magazine industry is fucked up when Hef announced PlayBoy is no longer going to post nude pics. The youth of America will never know magazines like we did. [emoji6][emoji23][emoji23]

Though not on topic, I think this still answers the question.

Im not sure how anyone could argue the contrary in that magazines ARE meaningful for all industries. Maybe to loyal readers, sure. Most folks go to google and type a question/subject and get to read a myriad of views, opinions and facts.
 
I like magazines for the following reasons: I get tired of staring at a screen, I don't worry about losing it or somebody stealing it on a plane or the beach, they don't chime and make me check my email when I don't want to be bothered with work, you can swat a bug with one, physically flipping through one (or a book) is often better than scrolling down a page, and the glossy pictures are nice to look at. I don't like magazines because they are not environmentally friendly, take up too much physical space, fade when left in the sun, cost too much. I have not renewed a magazine subscription in years. Though I did get, and enjoyed, Crawl for a while and every now and then one still shows up. Not sure how that happens.

Regardless, I never rely on one, from TEN or otherwise, for my sole source of information.
 
I like magazines for the following reasons: I get tired of staring at a screen, I don't worry about losing it or somebody stealing it on a plane or the beach, they don't chime and make me check my email when I don't want to be bothered with work, you can swat a bug with one, physically flipping through one (or a book) is often better than scrolling down a page, and the glossy pictures are nice to look at.

Magazines are great to take on vacations for the reasons you state above. I'm not much of a book reader, but usually grab several leisure as well as business mags for flights and Lanai reading. [emoji6][emoji106]

Though I did get, and enjoyed, Crawl for a while and every now and then one still shows up. Not sure how that happens.

Regardless, I never rely on one, from TEN or otherwise, for my sole source of information.

We continue to get mags at our address for old subs as well as for the previous owner of the home. We've lived here 7-8 years. [emoji15]

Mag ad sales are based heavily on subscribers and distribution. It makes sense for publishers to pad those numbers with "households."
 
I forgot to mention Crawl mag. Good fabrication on most of the rigs in there but little to no off the shelf stuff. It's my favorite one.

X2 on Crawl Magazine. There are some amazing rigs in there and most of the guys are all about hardcore wheeling. I like to see all of the custom fab work and dream about building a rig like one of those one day. It is my favorite.

I just borrowed a stack of JP magazines from a buddy and I enjoyed them but Crawl is my favorite. I don't plan on subscribing to JP or Fourwheeler magazine.
 
I have to agree that print is dead. The internet killed it. Like was said before, good for taking on a plane, but that's about it.

From the industry I come from, the magazines weren't about to print anything to piss off the manufacturers. If someone had something really wrong with their product, the magazine would basically say "go fix it and bring it back". They aren't about to trash their bread and butter (the advertisers). During the peak of our industry I was spending over $20,000 a month on magazine ads. Not that I wanted to, but it was a necessity to show your relevance in the market. It gave legitimacy to your company for people to spend money with you. With the advertising came the evaluations and write ups. To get a cover was extra special. They made it clear that you weren't about to be invited to the evaluations without being a current advertiser. Every year for the main evaluations, each company owner would be pulled into an office to sit down and sign next years contract.

I can only imagine that the off road magazines handle business the same way.

Those days are all gone now. Nobody is spending money advertising in print, when they can reach far more people on the internet. It's instantaneous, no having to wait for the next issue. You can change your ads any time you want and the internet (for the most part), is a lot less expensive.

I think forums are the best all around place to get real information on current products and how dealers and manufacturers take care of their customers.
 
And I suppose that's were you and I disagree. Forums are FILLED with opinions from regular joe blows but they can be dissected and discussed by people who've had actual first hand experience using the products in question. Magazine try to come across as some kind of an authority when in fact, they're just in the business of selling advertisements. This is the reason why they ONLY publish reviews of products made by manufacturers who advertise in their journals. This is why you will never hear a scathing but honest review of anything, EVER. As I said from the beginning, I used to subscribe and buy magazines all the time back when they were the only source of information but today, I find the content within them to be outdated and of little use. Of course, that's just me. If you find what they have to say useful, I guess they're doing you a service.



And it's been my experience that the articles they publish regarding things like installation write-up to be woefully inadequate. They lack detail, they lack quality photo and of things I really need to see and they lack the kind of interaction and help from others who've installed the same products. But again, that just been my experience.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the relevance and validity of information found in a magazine verses a forum. I find useable information in both platforms, but you appear to feel the magazines are not giving honest genuine reviews. To each his own :beer:
 
I enjoy reading magazines, they don't weigh a ton like my iPad, they are larger than my phone, I can throw a couple in the back of the Jeep when I travel and not worry about them and the batteries never die. When I finish them (I usually read them all cover to cover) I donate them to our local library. I see kids in there looking at the pictures and talking about the rigs all the time and I think that is cool. The articles and reviews are stories, I usually find a little gem in at least one or two articles per issue. I understand the economics involved along with the bias, why they never review certain products no matter the quality (good or bad) and keep that in mind as I read.

Consumer's Report will slam stuff in a review, but they are the most biased/slanted group in print (both paper and digital). If a vehicle doesn't cruise at the ton all day, with sound levels below 65 dBm playing some fancy opera on a 2000 watt perfect stereo while getting 35+ mpg and come with a nameplate from a very short list it's crap. Writing negative reviews won't make a magazine any more useful, but full page pictures will - I used to have dirt bike and sport bike pictures all over my walls from magazines, can't do that from a forum unless I print them and the quality isn't the same.

I gather 98% of my technical information off the web, but most searches now result in where to buy a product and not owner/user reviews - that, and the great atmosphere are what I love about this forum. I can get real "this is what happened with..." and "yep, it sucked, but here is how I made that useless piece of crap work..." to "hey, don't buy that/those, I'll give you mine to have/try..." here at Wayalife. I even get links to some really funny shit (thanks guys for making me snort milk out of my nose laughing so hard) that can't or won't happen in a magazine.

Both have their places and I am sure if I had been born as little as 5 years later I might never have picked up a magazine, but the other thing they are good for that on-line isn't is how we used to sit in the back of class and have one open behind the book so we could read the good stuff.
 
I subscribe to JP but only for entertainment. I often don't read the product reviews because they are so biased but keeps aren't that common over here so it's interesting to see what's happening in the industry.
 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the relevance and validity of information found in a magazine verses a forum.

By all means, please give me an example of where you learned something of relevance that you could ONLY find in a magazine.

I find useable information in both platforms, but you appear to feel the magazines are not giving honest genuine reviews. To each his own :beer:

Not exactly. What I said is that you will NEVER see a scathing BUT honest review in a magazine - there is a difference and the absence of it should be concerning to you and others. Or at least, in my opinion.
 
And I suppose that's were you and I disagree. Forums are FILLED with opinions from regular joe blows but they can be dissected and discussed by people who've had actual first hand experience using the products in question. Magazine try to come across as some kind of an authority when in fact, they're just in the business of selling advertisements. This is the reason why they ONLY publish reviews of products made by manufacturers who advertise in their journals. This is why you will never hear a scathing but honest review of anything, EVER. As I said from the beginning, I used to subscribe and buy magazines all the time back when they were the only source of information but today, I find the content within them to be outdated and of little use. Of course, that's just me. If you find what they have to say useful, I guess they're doing you a service.



And it's been my experience that the articles they publish regarding things like installation write-up to be woefully inadequate. They lack detail, they lack quality photo and of things I really need to see and they lack the kind of interaction and help from others who've installed the same products. But again, that just been my experience.

Eh, what would you know. Not like you've made a living out filling a void vacated by those same magazines. [emoji6] [emoji106]
 
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