The Abominable Bolt predicament!

TopoPilot

TopoPilot

New member
I was watching a Youtube video where this kid was winching his diesel gladiator out of some snow in Oregon. (not a hard pull at all) He had the Warn 12k winch attached to a capable bumper (bumper held up bolts failed) and the bumper flew off. That got me thinking. I used the same bolts to mount my new 12k winch bumper to my truck. The same ones that connected the plastic OEM bumper onto my truck from the factory. So I did a click or two on the old comp-U-tater and found this. (see pic). Turns out my bumper bolts are 10.9 on the scale. (see the other pic) So down the rabbit hole I slid.... I'm getting conflicting information. Anyone want to chime in? Tearing off my front bumper over a handful of bolts would be bad mkay... Which rating of bolts are you guys having success with on these 12k winch bumpers? Thanks.
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My understanding is a 10.9 metric is close to a Grade 8 in strength. Most all of your suspension bolts are 10.9 too
 
Grade 8 is SAE, grade 10.9 is Metric.

The two grades are similar, but grade 8 is a stronger fastener due to it's composition.

The biggest concern is using the correct torque for the bolt size. What you saw in the video could have been over torqued which could have already weakened the fastener.
 
kevman65 said:
Grade 8 is SAE, grade 10.9 is Metric.

The two grades are similar, but grade 8 is a stronger fastener due to it's composition.

The biggest concern is using the correct torque for the bolt size. What you saw in the video could have been over torqued which could have already weakened the fastener.
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THIS.

I'm currently reevaluating all torque specs for a heavy equipment manufacturer for my job. Our machines are worldwide and I have been tasked to make sure torque specs are safe.
 
It seems like a winch mounted to a winch plate attached to multiple points on the frame should be stronger than a winch mounted on a bumper attached to the end of the frame. Lots of Jeep bumpers are built more for appearance than actual function.
 
WJCO said:
10.9 is fine. Sounds like someone was being a jackass or had a jackass working on their Jeep. Not a bolt issue from the evidence heard so far.
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OverlanderJK said:
This was my thought as well. I have never seen a bumper rip off from an easy pull.
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This ^^^^

I'm a little new to this Jeep thing but in my limited experience, I have NEVER seen a Jeep bumper get ripped off in any of the pulls I have personally been a part of or have personally witnessed.
 
Or, to put it more simply, your OEM bolts are Grade 10.9.

Your aftermarket bolts can be either Grade 8 or Grade 10.9 depending on what the manufacturer uses.
 
I've purposely replaced some bolts with better quality than what came with a part, some of those china bolts seem like they're made from recycled gum wrappers.

lately if the part comes with separate bolt and washer that I consider critical, I'll replace them with a flange bolt, just ocd phase lol

my go to for bolts McMaster-Carr, Fastenal, ACE.

I like McMaster for their 12.9 bolt selection.
 
I thought I would put the link to the video up so you could see what I was talking about. Like a couple guys have stated, I had never seen this happen either. You can see it (the bumper ripped from the truck frame) at the 46:14 mark. Thanks.
 
TopoPilot said:
I thought I would put the link to the video up so you could see what I was talking about. Like a couple guys have stated, I had never seen this happen either. You can see it (the bumper ripped from the truck frame) at the 46:14 mark. Thanks.
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There is NO FUCKIN WAY that aftermarket bumper would have ripped off IF ALL 4 BOLTS ON EACH SIDE of the frame rails were installed and correctly. AND, I should note, whatever bolts the fool used were NOT factory 10.9, that I can guarantee. The factory uses studs pressed into the tow points and they sandwich the factory bumper onto the frame rail horns and get secured in place with nuts. So, if anything, the bolts that were used were grade 8 or less and if I could guess, only 2 of them were used on each side because the 2 on the inside of the frame rails can be a bitch to install.

This is the problem with YouTube and social media as a whole. So much bad information and it really does influence people in ALL the wrong ways.
 
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I would like to add, for all the people out there who are paying money to replace your bolts with grade 8's, can I please have your old factory bolts? I'd be happy to pay for shipping and no, this is not a joke. This is a serious offer.

Thanks!
 
wayoflife said:
There is NO FUCKIN WAY that aftermarket bumper would have ripped off IF ALL 4 BOLTS ON EACH SIDE of the frame rails were installed and correctly. AND, I should note, whatever bolts the fool used were NOT factory 10.9, that I can guarantee. The factory uses studs pressed into the tow points and they sandwich the factory bumper onto the frame rail horns and get secured in place with nuts. So, if anything, the bolts that were used were grade 8 or less and if I could guess, only 2 of them were used on each side because the 2 on the inside of the frame rails can be a bitch to install.

This is the problem with YouTube and social media as a whole. So much bad information and it really does influence people in ALL the wrong ways.
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Later In the video, the guy who sold him that bumper that was torn from his truck (and the replacement hardware that came with said bumper) Offers to bring him a new bumper but he respectfully declines. Instead, the guy from "Relentless Fabrication" drives one out to him. (no affiliation, first time I ever heard of them) Just thought I would share for clarity. 🦾😎
 
TopoPilot said:
I thought I would put the link to the video up so you could see what I was talking about. Like a couple guys have stated, I had never seen this happen either. You can see it (the bumper ripped from the truck frame) at the 46:14 mark. Thanks.
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If those bolts broke they were faulty. No way proper factory bumper bolts would break like that. If they were aftermarket grade 8’s they were counterfeit Chinese crap 💩
 
TopoPilot said:
Later In the video, the guy who sold him that bumper that was torn from his truck (and the replacement hardware that came with said bumper) Offers to bring him a new bumper but he respectfully declines. Instead, the guy from "Relentless Fabrication" drives one out to him. (no affiliation, first time I ever heard of them) Just thought I would share for clarity. 🦾😎
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Honestly, it really doesn't matter what bumper was installed or at least, from what I saw and unless the first one only uses 2 bolts on each side of the frame rails to secure it in place and or uses POS china bolts of supposed grade 8 quality or less. If that were the case, then yeah, the first bumper was a POS design and should NEVER be allowed to be sold!!

And, so that it isn't missed, factory bolts are great and do not need to be replaced.
 
AZVAJKU said:
If those bolts broke they were faulty. No way proper factory bumper bolts would break like that. If they were aftermarket grade 8’s they were counterfeit Chinese crap 💩
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Yeah, I would tend to agree. Like I said, I never saw anything like that happen before (never heard of my friends experiencing it either) and I'm an old man. That's what sent me down this rabbit hole.
 
AZVAJKU said:
If those bolts broke they were faulty. No way proper factory bumper bolts would break like that. If they were aftermarket grade 8’s they were counterfeit Chinese crap 💩
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The only way I could see them being grade 8 and failing like that is if only 2 were used on each side of the frame rails. And, I can totally see how a bumper design and or installer would chose to do that being that the 2 on the inside of the frame rails can be a pain to install on a lot of bumpers, especially if you have a winch on it.
 
wayoflife said:
Honestly, it really doesn't matter what bumper was installed or at least, from what I saw and unless the first one only uses 2 bolts on each side of the frame rails to secure it in place and or uses POS china bolts of supposed grade 8 quality or less. If that were the case, then yeah, the first bumper was a POS design and should NEVER be allowed to be sold!!

And, so that it isn't missed, factory bolts are great and do not need to be replaced.
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Yeah, he says in the video, "no thanks". You can tell he doesn't "trust" the guys products. He never says who sold it to him. LOL. But he clearly isn't happy.
 
He mentions that the bolts were welded to the bumper, so it's possible whoever welded the bolts "reverse heat-treated" the bolts in the welding process. There was also mention of the bolts stripping, not breaking, which raises the possibility that the bolts were cross threaded (and just cranked down with an impact wrench)
 
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