To beat a dead horse.....death wobble....

C

cloudpump

New member
2017 Rubicon, 110000 miles, stock height, no upgrades yet.
Short version: death wobble on a tired north east jeep.
Long version: I've been dealing with death wobble for about a month now. Started after taking the jeep in for passenger axle seal replaced. Initially it was only going around curves. Thought I had a sticking caliper. Took it in, new brake lines and calipers due to sticking slides. Had the tires rotated while there.
Well, first real experience with death wobble. Had to come to a complete stop. So, talked to the shop (independent) that did my brakes. They suggested the steering stabilizer. I got annoyed, took it off myself and realized the bushings were seized. So, I replaced the stabilizer myself. Of course still had dw.
Called the dealership that did my axle seals. They came back with tires chopped up and tried to sell me 4 new tires. Said my shocks were weak, and all 4 would be $950.
I declined.
So I did some research and realized my track bar bushing was shot on the axle side. Pulled the track bar, got the old bushing out and put in a new one. Rotated my chopped up tires so the smoothest ones were on the front. DW almost solved.
So my newest issue is twice I've had DW. Going around a bend, first to the left and then immediately to the right. After that, went to another mechanic to check Ball joints, wheel bearings, tie rod and drag link ends. All were tight.
Then today, while driving 60 on the highway. A lot of potholes. Hit about 6 in a row (relatively deep and harsh). I pulled over to the shoulder and stopped. No issues the rest of the way. Then on the way back, there was a patch on the road that wasn't overly smooth and I could feel a minor wobble.
Trying to think what else could be the cause. Tires chopped. Worn shocks. But that wouldn't cause DW, would it?
I have a rock krawler 2.5 inch lift waiting to go on along with 1.5 inch wheel spacers.
Some thoughts are, bad control arm bushings, worn out shocks and springs. But I'm leary of throwing the lift on without fully understanding the issue.
 
Primary causes of DWs are
1 Track Bar. Look for bad bushings, wallowed out holes, loose or worn or undersized hardware, weak or cracked brackets, bent track bar, weak track bar
2 Ball Joints. Worn, loose, wallowed out and/or cracked seats will allow movement that can turn into DWs. This includes ball joints used in the steering links as well as the steering knuckles
3 Unit Bearings. Any play in the unit bearings can cause DWs
4 Pitman Arm. A worn pitman arm can cause DWs as well as wandering. A dropped pitman arm is much more likely to wear out than an OEM pitman arm. Some cheap kits use a dropped pitman arm insteadof the correct brackets in an attempt to fix steering geometry issues from lifting.

Other possibilities
1 Control Arms. Worn bushings, loose or worn or undersized hardware, flexing
2 Cracked Frames
3 Steering Box. A loose steering box and/or the frame is cracked can result in DWs

If the DWs persist and you can find nothing loose, worn, damaged, flexing or cracked KEEP LOOKING! It's there. Do not waste time or money on balancing tires or rotations or buying new tires or doing alignments. They will not cause or cure DWs. Until the source of the DWs is identified and addressed, tires will simply wear faster and an alignment done after parts are replaced. There's always someone that will tell you "My DWs went away after an alignment/tire rotation/new tires." That's like saying "My broken leg went away when they gave me morhine."

There are two ways to fix the DWs. Replace everything or look for the play and replace parts accordingly. Both methods have their pros & cons. Replacing everything lets you upgrade and it's all done at once. Replacing only what needs it is cheaper and it's a matter of time until teh next part wears out.
 
GP NOIR said:
Primary causes of DWs are
1 Track Bar. Look for bad bushings, wallowed out holes, loose or worn or undersized hardware, weak or cracked brackets, bent track bar, weak track bar
2 Ball Joints. Worn, loose, wallowed out and/or cracked seats will allow movement that can turn into DWs. This includes ball joints used in the steering links as well as the steering knuckles
3 Unit Bearings. Any play in the unit bearings can cause DWs
4 Pitman Arm. A worn pitman arm can cause DWs as well as wandering. A dropped pitman arm is much more likely to wear out than an OEM pitman arm. Some cheap kits use a dropped pitman arm insteadof the correct brackets in an attempt to fix steering geometry issues from lifting.

Other possibilities
1 Control Arms. Worn bushings, loose or worn or undersized hardware, flexing
2 Cracked Frames
3 Steering Box. A loose steering box and/or the frame is cracked can result in DWs

If the DWs persist and you can find nothing loose, worn, damaged, flexing or cracked KEEP LOOKING! It's there. Do not waste time or money on balancing tires or rotations or buying new tires or doing alignments. They will not cause or cure DWs. Until the source of the DWs is identified and addressed, tires will simply wear faster and an alignment done after parts are replaced. There's always someone that will tell you "My DWs went away after an alignment/tire rotation/new tires." That's like saying "My broken leg went away when they gave me morhine."

There are two ways to fix the DWs. Replace everything or look for the play and replace parts accordingly. Both methods have their pros & cons. Replacing everything lets you upgrade and it's all done at once. Replacing only what needs it is cheaper and it's a matter of time until teh next part wears out.
Click to expand...
So what is undersized hardware?
 
cloudpump said:
So what is undersized hardware?
Click to expand...
In layman's terms, undersized hardware refers to bolts that are too small and cause unnecessary play in the component they are installed on.

For example, if you install a track bar with a skinny bolt, it will rattle around and cause vibrations/death wobble.
 
thrash66 said:
In layman's terms, undersized hardware refers to bolts that are too small and cause unnecessary play in the component they are installed on.

For example, if you install a track bar with a skinny bolt, it will rattle around and cause vibrations/death wobble.
Click to expand...
Thats what I figured. I've always gone with OEM size bolts.
 
cozdude said:
Grade 8 hardware "upgrade" is snake oil. the factory bolts are the right size. everything just needs to be torqued to spec properly
Click to expand...
Spock would say that it is not logical to believe that an exotic upgrade component is necessary to solve a problem if the problem did not occur as originally delivered from the factory.
 
cozdude said:
Grade 8 hardware "upgrade" is snake oil. the factory bolts are the right size. everything just needs to be torqued to spec properly
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about "upgrading" the factory bolts to Grade 8 SAE bolts. I've yet to see properly torqued good condition factory bolts cause DWs, wallow out holes or any other kind of problems.

I'm talking about undersized hardware, such as a 1/2" bolt in a 9/16" hole.
 
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