New Genright JKU cage vs EVO full cage?

I know this isnt about you, but do you have a full weld in cage? I opted for a sport cage, but stopped short of a full blown cage for a variety of reasons (already talked about).

Nope I do not have a full weld in cage, I cannot afford it. Do I want it, yes. Do I use my Jeep and its capability as the build was intended.....well I am definitely beyond that point now. Again, I need a weld in cage and have already proven that a sport is a step in the right direction of safety, but absolutely is not even close to a full cage. You are right, this isn't about me one bit. But I am definitely not going to let cavalier statements be thrown out unchecked, your comparison of road car and trail rig does not hold water. Like you, I have had some dangerously fast race cars, a couple not even street legal/track only, have raced in four different classes/series over my life, but enjoy offloading and offroad racing more than any of the others. It just seems you have thrown money at a build without even knowing anything about this form of motorsport, it is confusing to many of the people following your threads about a general build and upgrades.
 
Nope I do not have a full weld in cage, I cannot afford it. Do I want it, yes. Do I use my Jeep and its capability as the build was intended.....well I am definitely beyond that point now. Again, I need a weld in cage and have already proven that a sport is a step in the right direction of safety, but absolutely is not even close to a full cage. You are right, this isn't about me one bit. But I am definitely not going to let cavalier statements be thrown out unchecked, your comparison of road car and trail rig does not hold water. Like you, I have had some dangerously fast race cars, a couple not even street legal/track only, have raced in four different classes/series over my life, but enjoy offloading and offroad racing more than any of the others. It just seems you have thrown money at a build without even knowing anything about this form of motorsport, it is confusing to many of the people following your threads about a general build and upgrades.

Hey, they have internet in Afganishitholeturkfuckthisplaceastan? :thinking:
 
Hey, they have internet in Afganishitholeturkfuckthisplaceastan? :thinking:

They do....and the use of a VPN app on your computer is highly suggested. Apparently living out in town can be dangerous on the internets too.
 
Nope I do not have a full weld in cage, I cannot afford it. Do I want it, yes. Do I use my Jeep and its capability as the build was intended.....well I am definitely beyond that point now. Again, I need a weld in cage and have already proven that a sport is a step in the right direction of safety, but absolutely is not even close to a full cage. You are right, this isn't about me one bit. But I am definitely not going to let cavalier statements be thrown out unchecked, your comparison of road car and trail rig does not hold water. Like you, I have had some dangerously fast race cars, a couple not even street legal/track only, have raced in four different classes/series over my life, but enjoy offloading and offroad racing more than any of the others. It just seems you have thrown money at a build without even knowing anything about this form of motorsport, it is confusing to many of the people following your threads about a general build and upgrades.

It may be selfish :rolleyes2: on my part, but the unfortunate possibility of confusing the internet masses with the intentions of my build did not remotely enter my psyche or my priority list when considering options on how to build the "ideal rig" with forum's largest vendor. I appreciate the aggregate forum's feedback and y'all have had an impact on what has ultimately been ordered/procured, but with all do respect, this is for me, and not y'all. I suppose everyone eles's choices on their rigs would be determined in a similar spirit. If my purchasing habits dont resonate with anyone's personal preferences, Im sorry, but we all have different personal needs, intentions, histories, and budgets.

For some background, this way of purchasing is the exact way I purchase pretty much everything.I may have told this story before, but I remember when I bought my first precision rifle. I knew how to put rounds down range and had been an avid participant in the comeptitive shooting sports. I was however, new to the world of precison long range shooting. Being new, I wanted to build the best precision tactical rig that money could buy so I would never be limited by equipment, but only by the shooter. In essence, I wanted to buy once and be done with it. . What I ultimately purchased was different than what those with a more practical fiscal proclivity may have recommended. It sure as shit was different than what the internet peanut gallery recommended. I never bought a off-the-shelf remington 700 with a Leupold scope to learn the basics with. Rather I bought a custom action, pillar bedded, custom stock rifle with a Schmidt & Bender scope. There were those in the peanut gallery who felt that I was wasting my money and I was an idiot for approaching my first precision rifle in such a way, but to this day I fully support this "big bang" approach rather than incrementalism. Since those early days, I have been a national level competitor for the past many years and still employ that rifle when the conditions are suitable.

The difference here is that I may not be the Yoda of the off-road sports but I am hardly new to motorsports. I have approached the build of all my hot rods in a "go big or go home" mentality. Similarly, I know where I want to take this build, but know the limitations from my personal experience on what I liked/disliked. I drove my Viper less than 100 miles in the last year I owned it for a variety of reasons, but none of them were because I didnt make it the fastest, safest street rod that I could afford. Rather, It was because I took the build too far. Beyond asking those in this forum, I have more than a few "real world" friends who are seasoned veterans in off-road motorsports. They have Jeeps as well as dedicated trail rigs/buggies. They are not surprised, shocked, or in tremendous disagreement with my approach to my build. Perhaps that is a bit of first hand knowledge, or perhaps they just have different backgrounds. If my approach doesnt resonate with what y'all would personally do, so be it. The material punch line is that it appears that what I have planned still is in line with what the majority with similar builds have done so far...whether or not they want more is a different story.
 
It may be selfish :rolleyes2: on my part, but the unfortunate possibility of confusing the internet masses with the intentions of my build did not remotely enter my psyche or my priority list when considering options on how to build the "ideal rig" with forum's largest vendor. I appreciate the aggregate forum's feedback and y'all have had an impact on what has ultimately been ordered/procured, but with all do respect, this is for me, and not y'all. I suppose everyone eles's choices on their rigs would be determined in a similar spirit. If my purchasing habits dont resonate with anyone's personal preferences, Im sorry, but we all have different personal needs, intentions, histories, and budgets.

For some background, this way of purchasing is the exact way I purchase pretty much everything.I may have told this story before, but I remember when I bought my first precision rifle. I knew how to put rounds down range and had been an avid participant in the comeptitive shooting sports. I was however, new to the world of precison long range shooting. Being new, I wanted to build the best precision tactical rig that money could buy so I would never be limited by equipment, but only by the shooter. In essence, I wanted to buy once and be done with it. . What I ultimately purchased was different than what those with a more practical fiscal proclivity may have recommended. It sure as shit was different than what the internet peanut gallery recommended. I never bought a off-the-shelf remington 700 with a Leupold scope to learn the basics with. Rather I bought a custom action, pillar bedded, custom stock rifle with a Schmidt & Bender scope. There were those in the peanut gallery who felt that I was wasting my money and I was an idiot for approaching my first precision rifle in such a way, but to this day I fully support this "big bang" approach rather than incrementalism. Since those early days, I have been a national level competitor for the past many years and still employ that rifle when the conditions are suitable.

The difference here is that I may not be the Yoda of the off-road sports but I am hardly new to motorsports. I have approached the build of all my hot rods in a "go big or go home" mentality. Similarly, I know where I want to take this build, but know the limitations from my personal experience on what I liked/disliked. I drove my Viper less than 100 miles in the last year I owned it for a variety of reasons, but none of them were because I didnt make it the fastest, safest street rod that I could afford. Rather, It was because I took the build too far. Beyond asking those in this forum, I have more than a few "real world" friends who are seasoned veterans in off-road motorsports. They have Jeeps as well as dedicated trail rigs/buggies. They are not surprised, shocked, or in tremendous disagreement with my approach to my build. Perhaps that is a bit of first hand knowledge, or perhaps they just have different backgrounds. If my approach doesnt resonate with what y'all would personally do, so be it. The material punch line is that it appears that what I have planned still is in line with what the majority with similar builds have done so far...whether or not they want more is a different story.


Still confused as to what you are questioning. You ordered a Rockhard bolt-in Sport Cage, right? Now you are thinking you 'need' a full weld in cage because this thread alerted you that ORE has their own, but have said over and over you don't like the loss of 'luxury' that you will lose as a result? So it sounds like you 'need' what you've already ordered. or am I missing something? :thinking:
 
Still confused as to what you are questioning. You ordered a Rockhard bolt-in Sport Cage, right? Now you are thinking you 'need' a full weld in cage because this thread alerted you that ORE has their own, but have said over and over you don't like the loss of 'luxury' that you will lose as a result? So it sounds like you 'need' what you've already ordered. or am I missing something? :thinking:

No you nailed it. Just challenging those who are challenging my choice on this particular item. If I have a change of heart down the road I'll just sell the rock hard and pay a good fab shop to build a custom cage.
 
No you nailed it. Just challenging those who are challenging my choice on this particular item. If I have a change of heart down the road I'll just sell the rock hard and pay a good fab shop to build a custom cage.

Cool. Not sure if it was posted earlier, but here is a link to pics of ORE's Weld-in cage taken by Cindy and Eddie here at WOL. You can get an idea what the $5K ORE charges for it gets you.

http://project-jk.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=333206
 
Any cage is going to be bad at 60mph.

This simply isn't correct. I've seen more than a few cages protect occupants in crashes at far greater speeds, in street cars.

My OPINION from my road race days is that if you really want something to truly protect you for "worst case scenario" you'll need a cage with x braces, and so many tubes that you'll have a dedicated Off road/trail rig.

Assuming you have the background you say, then you know it's all in the design. Many cage builders throw more and more tubing at a problem to create a structurally sound cage. And you end up with something that clearly isn't streetable. I'd also say you started with a builder that didn't truly understand what they were doing or the engineering behind it. It's not that hard to build a cage in a JKU that retains all the creature comforts of a stock JKU with the added safety of a full cage. That said, it's also not cheap.


Modifying your car/hotrod/offroad rig can often be a slippery slope between streetability and ultimate dedicated hobby-centric functionality. In my experience, the roll cage, as nice as it is to have I catastrophic events was one of the primary contributing factors that turned my street rods into garage queens based on elimination of creature comforts.

This is very true and something everyone (especially those taller than average) should think about. It's also why many sports cars with cages get relegated to garage queen status. Bumping your head on a cage, even lightly, can very easily be fatal. It's very difficult, in the tight confines of most sports cars, to build a cage that you can't whack your head on pretty easily due to even a light impact. It's why I never recommended cages in street cars (roll bars, yes, full cages, no) when I was building racecars. Jeeps are a bit different as the packaging is different but the risks are the same. Bump your head on an unpadded bar and you are likely looking at a severe concussion or worse. Even with padding, it can be very dangerous.


Think about it. Add a harness bar and you can't recline your front seats anymore. End of the world? No. Add a rear harness bar and you impact your ability to carry rear cargo. Wouldn't you want door braces or swing out door braces? More hassle to get in and out. Additional tubes impact ability to enter/exit. Then you're impacting the factory sound bar....maybe the shitty subwoofer. More squeaks and rattles to add to the suspension squeaks and wind noise and tire noise and exhaust drone. There is for most a straw that breaks the camels back....you just don't realize that you've reached that point until after you passed it. At what point are you dreading a drive to the mall or a quick errand? At what point do you find it parked for all purposes but your next trip to the trail? I've been there half a dozen times with street rods. Most of my gear head buddies have had rigs
That have done the same....and these aren't pansies that want "mall crawlers or garage queens". I personally just need a huge proof point that the more robust weld-in options are not overtly intrusive before taking the plunge this time. I added a sport cage to my build but stopped short of a weld in custom cage based on this premise. If someone can show me a truly "reasonably practical" option I would likely be willing to make a change/upgrade. I just can't envision such a system

At the risk of being banned ala JKF days of old, I would suggest you search out other options online. Most on this forum go the sport cage route. We might have a few with full custom cages, but I feel safe in saying there aren't 5 build threads on this forum that detail a fully custom cage build. There are on some of the other JK dedicated forums and quite a few of these are still very streetable. Are there trade-offs? Absolutely and you seem to understand those pretty well. It's a question of what trade off are you willing to accept. And you need to know what those are and understand them going in so you can design around those requirements before you start burning in components of your cage.

If you don't have proper racing shells, you shouldn't be running harnesses so a harness bar becomes somewhat moot (this is a whole other argument that we definitely don't want to get started on). If you are running shells, then a harness bar isn't that big a compromise because you can't recline your seat anyway. In the back, it's a question of what and how much gear you carry. I'm always using my back seat and have a cage design sitting in Solidworks right now that allows me to use the back as I need to. Of course I don't carry anything that requires folding the rear seats, so a cross bar there doesn't bother me. Only thing I carry on the floor of the back is a welder, a small tool kit, and a large cooler. Everything else fits in the basket to be strapped down. This still leaves room to tie upper rear shock mounts into the cage structure at some point in the future without impacting my ability to carry the camping/wheeling gear that I typically carry. That works great for me, might not for others.
 
If you don't have proper racing shells, you shouldn't be running harnesses so a harness bar becomes somewhat moot (this is a whole other argument that we definitely don't want to get started on). If you are running shells, then a harness bar isn't that big a compromise because you can't recline your seat anyway. In the back, it's a question of what and how much gear you carry. I'm always using my back seat and have a cage design sitting in Solidworks right now that allows me to use the back as I need to. Of course I don't carry anything that requires folding the rear seats, so a cross bar there doesn't bother me. Only thing I carry on the floor of the back is a welder, a small tool kit, and a large cooler. Everything else fits in the basket to be strapped down. This still leaves room to tie upper rear shock mounts into the cage structure at some point in the future without impacting my ability to carry the camping/wheeling gear that I typically carry. That works great for me, might not for others.

Right on point. This is some of what I was thinking. The need for racing shells was some of the inevitable "incrementalism" that would follow. Moreover the potential loss of rear cargo area usability severely impacts my use of the jeep as it is necessary for 48" rifle cases and camping gear.
 
This simply isn't correct.

Not to get off topic but are you going to state that no one was banned from JK Forum for mentioning other forums or for mentioning manufacturers that weren't sponsors of JK Forum while under it's previous management? It was a regular and routine occurence.

I was banned for merely mentioning Poly Performance in a PM to another forum member prior them becoming a sponsor of that forum.

That's water under the bridge however and I'm not dredging up that old topic. The info is easily ascertainable if anyone cares to search it out.
 
Not to get off topic but are you going to state that no one was banned from JK Forum for mentioning other forums or for mentioning manufacturers that weren't sponsors of JK Forum while under it's previous management? It was a regular and routine occurence.

I was banned for merely mentioning Poly Performance in a PM to another forum member prior them becoming a sponsor of that forum.

That's water under the bridge however and I'm not dredging up that old topic. The info is easily ascertainable if anyone cares to search it out.

Seems to me you are "dredging up an old topic." And in case you weren't aware, this isn't JKF this is wayalife.
 
Right on point. This is some of what I was thinking. The need for racing shells was some of the inevitable "incrementalism" that would follow. Moreover the potential loss of rear cargo area usability severely impacts my use of the jeep as it is necessary for 48" rifle cases and camping gear.

This I understand. I've got a Synergy baja basket set-up in mine which is what allows me some flexibility back there. With some mods I can carry two rifle cases more or less strapped to the bottom of it (I'd have to measure but I'm nearly certain they aren't 48 inches, think they are closer to 40 inches or so if memory serves). But yes, I'd suspect you'd have to be able to lay down the seats to cleanly fit a 48 inch case in the back. An X-Brace back there would clearly cause issues with the rifle cases to either side (which is where I'd want them). Only idea I'd have is with two shells in the back and an x-brace with a harness cross bar, rifle cases could run up the centerline of the JKU, though even I'd admit that's far from ideal and would likely screw up the balance of any packing trying to be done back there.
 
I forgot how nice the evo option was, yes expensive but doesn't seem to take away any room like some im sure do. I guess its 5k cuz it looks the closest to oem as you are going to get. Does anyone have the pic where the hard top is on? From what I remember it fits like a glove.

Just trying to get this tread back on track somewhat.
 
Not to get off topic but are you going to state that no one was banned from JK Forum for mentioning other forums or for mentioning manufacturers that weren't sponsors of JK Forum while under it's previous management? It was a regular and routine occurence.

I was banned for merely mentioning Poly Performance in a PM to another forum member prior them becoming a sponsor of that forum.

That's water under the bridge however and I'm not dredging up that old topic. The info is easily ascertainable if anyone cares to search it out.

My response was merely addressing your claim that I wasn't around in the JK-forum days...a point in which you are clearly wrong. But since you brought up the other stuff I'll bite.

In my experience people got/get banned for being douche bags and having an over inflated sense of self-worth and self-entitlement issues. Most of them went about spouting how they got banned for "only this" or "only that" blah blah blah. Then they run over to JKO and bragged how tough they are. Frankly I think it's sad that people's self-esteem is so low they need to have their internet buddies validate their actions (e.g. Dahreno's recent shenanigans here and on JKO).

Regardless of what your opinion is from that site, I think that is clearly not the case on this forum. So I wondered why you would be at risk of being banned and asked. But like you said you're not here to dredge anything up...although you appeared to have done just that. :crazyeyes:
 
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