National Parks will Cite AWD Cars for Driving on 4WD-Only Trails

Ddays said:
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. In today's world you have to watch out for the majority and not the exceptions. There are so many IG and TikTok dipshits out there thinking they can do anything and go anywhere because some jackass influencer posted a video where they did it that I applaud the NPS for doing this. Someone has to save the idiots from themselves. 🤷‍♂️
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Well, I disagree. But I am a firm believer in natural selection too, soooo.
 
Gossamer JL said:
I have never been off-roading out west, and I damn sure wouldn't go without someone more experienced and who knows the trail(s).
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It seems that you lack the spirit of adventure. Advance knowledge dramatically lessens the level of adventure. Part of the joy of exploring is not knowing what is around the next corner. As long as one knows his limits, and is adequately prepared (enough to be able to successfully retreat), then it should be fine to take a track without knowing all of its details in advance.
 
bobfriesenhahn said:
It seems that you lack the spirit of adventure. Advance knowledge dramatically lessens the level of adventure. Part of the joy of exploring is not knowing what is around the next corner. As long as one knows his limits, and is adequately prepared (enough to be able to successfully retreat), then it should be fine to take a track without knowing all of its details in advance.
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Its called having fun but being safe. Adventure can happen without the stupidity.
 
Ha1 said:
That's a red herring, though. While a gatekeeper feature is a good idea (and I know a number of MTB trail builders design trails to include them), that's not relevant to whether a rule or regulation is sufficiently defined to be enforceable.

If there is a law or regulation just says "you can't do that thing" the State cannot punish you for doing that thing unless you can be reasonably notified what the "thing" is (or least, not yet).
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It IS CLEARLY signed at Canyonlands and even in Arches for Tower Arch trail (I was just there). This isn't some speed trap to 'get you". It is on the websites where you get your backcountry passes, it's on the park websites, and it is signed at the trail heads. If you drive by the sign and don't notice it, you are still responsible for not following the rules. Just like if you don't notice the speed limit sign, you are still speeding.
 
DaJudge said:
It IS CLEARLY signed at Canyonlands and even in Arches for Tower Arch trail (I was just there). This isn't some speed trap to 'get you". It is on the websites where you get your backcountry passes, it's on the park websites, and it is signed at the trail heads. If you drive by the sign and don't notice it, you are still responsible for not following the rules. Just like if you don't notice the speed limit sign, you are still speeding.
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So, in other words, they're providing a definition of what types of vehicles are prohibited.

Not sure where the speed trap analogy comes in. There is a big difference in a citizen not reading the prohibition and the State imposing a punishment for violating a prohibition without giving notice of what it is that is prohibited - hence the reason they put on the signs, websites, etc.
 
Ha1 said:
So, in other words, they're providing a definition of what types of vehicles are prohibited.
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Prohibited or allowed? There is a big difference!

Someone might think that their $120k Range Rover is good to go because it says 4WD on the side of the car, and on the dash and they know that it has one of the most sophisticated 4WD systems available. They might even think that 6" is "high clearance" or that somehow their low-profile street tires with 1" of rubber between the dirt and the rim are okay.

It is useful if the sign says what is allowed, and clear enough that owners of modern SUVs can understand.
 
bobfriesenhahn said:
Prohibited or allowed? There is a big difference!

Someone might think that their $120k Range Rover is good to go because it says 4WD on the side of the car, and on the dash and they know that it has one of the most sophisticated 4WD systems available. They might even think that 6" is "high clearance" or that somehow their low-profile street tires with 1" of rubber between the dirt and the rim are okay.

It is useful if the sign says what is allowed, and clear enough that owners of modern SUVs can understand.
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the reason they put warning labels on shampoo bottles.
 
When I was less experienced, I took my little AWD up Shrine Pass road and got stuck in a foot of snow.

My brother and I walked a couple miles in the snow back to Red Cliff to use a pay phone at a bar to call his friend.

His buddy came in a TJ and pulled us out.


4WD only signs are a good thing. Not speaking from the internet or creating random hypothetical experiences to post. Speaking from experience.
 
Cousin Clyde said:
When I was less experienced, I took my little AWD up Shrine Pass road and got stuck in a foot of snow.

My brother and I walked a couple miles in the snow back to Red Cliff to use a pay phone at a bar to call his friend.

His buddy came in a TJ and pulled us out.


4WD only signs are a good thing. Not speaking from the internet or creating random hypothetical experiences to post. Speaking from experience.
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Lol... Shrine Pass Road? Vail pass to Redcliff is a gravel road. Bus sized RVs use it daily. I cannot recall a time my 30 years of 4 wheeling in Colorado the Shrine Pass was anything but a gravel county road.
 
epriev said:
Lol... Shrine Pass Road? Vail pass to Redcliff is a gravel road. Bus sized RVs use it daily. I cannot recall a time my 30 years of 4 wheeling in Colorado the Shrine Pass was anything but a gravel county road.
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You’re right. Missed the point though. Not debating the difficulty of a specific road.

Everyone is inexperienced at some point in their life, including myself.

Clearly marking trails as 4WD, not AWD, protects the resources of the local rescue crews, keeps traffic down, and ultimately helps keep trails open. The more trails that are labeled as such, the better.
 
jeeeep said:
I think you missed the "got stuck in a foot of snow." part
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No, not understanding conditions at the time was the issue. A smaller 4x4 could also get stuck in a foot of snow. Instead of plowing through and not knowing when to turn around.
 
epriev said:
Lol... Shrine Pass Road? Vail pass to Redcliff is a gravel road. Bus sized RVs use it daily. I cannot recall a time my 30 years of 4 wheeling in Colorado the Shrine Pass was anything but a gravel county road.
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epriev said:
No, not understanding conditions at the time was the issue. A smaller 4x4 could also get stuck in a foot of snow. Instead of plowing through and not knowing when to turn around.
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Umm okay? I thought it was so easy Bus sized RV's use it daily?
 
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