Makings of a NTSB Investigation

jtpedersen

Caught the Bug
Couple weeks ago, my wife and I had a major t'do, putting us in a potential life threatening situation in the blink of an eye. But like many major incidents NTSB might investigate, the end result was often simply the last in a thread of issues leading up to it. Hopefully our lessons learned can be of use to others.

My wife and I do most of our wheeling on our own. We do some group events, sometimes have family join in, but most trips are on our own. It's a risk we accept and we do our best to prepare...which generally includes avoiding risks in the first place.

We started down a particular trail around Noon. It involved slick mud, rocks, working around trees, while climbing a mountain side. We weren't particularly concerned. It was comfortably in our skill range and was a frequently used trail. After a while, we learned two things. First, the trail ended up putting us on a closed USFS trail. That was a problem, needed to return to the start. Second, somewhere along the way we had lost the brakes. We needed to get off the trail, couldn't go back the way we came (no brakes, steep incline), so what now?


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Turned out, like others here have done, we snagged a brake line at some point.

Being on the side of a mountain, where very little was flat, either 5-10 deg up, or down, and no brakes, severely limited our options. My tension level was somewhat higher than normal. My wife, who typically acts as navigator, started looking for a way out, trails that would possibly lead us toward an exit, pavement, and maybe cell service.

The trails had clearly been closed for several years. Initially, where it was evident someone else had preceded us only a day or two prior, we decided to follow their tracks in hopes of finding whatever exit they used. After an hour or so, we decided that was not going to work. Back to raw navigation. Fortunately the trail system was well-documented on GAIA GPS.

While some will scoff at the next comment, we did our level best to tread lightly, clearing only debris or small trees in the trail that were a safety hazard or simply could not be avoided. We spent until about 6:30p, clearing trails, mostly dead fall, up to 12" in diameter. With just an axe, handsaw, and winch. By 6:30 or so, drenched in sweat and exhausted, we had no choice but to call it a day, sleeping in Stitch, nosed into a mountainside anytime we had to park it.

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I should mention, 4L 1 can be literally a lifesaver. Wish the same could be said for a JK e-brake. Not worth the weight it takes up on the vehicle. And, unlike a stick, you cannot turn off the engine while moving...no different than shifting to neutral.

The next morning, we got up with the Sun, around 6a, and went at it again. Overall, with a major obstruction perhaps ever 3-500 feet, I estimate we manually cleared 1.5 miles of trail.

We had a goal, the trail we were on met pavement. As we got near, we crossed a small stream, where water flowed down the mountainside, crossed the trail, and kept on going. No issue. What was an issue later, was a rock slide. We were about 500' from pavement, with simply no way to get to it. It was disheartening.

Still working at self-extracting, I decided the only thing we could do, was return to origin, and lower ourselves back down the original climb, using the winch. So, finding what would've been a pull-off on an open trail, canted toward the mountain, I did about a 6-point turn to get Stitch facing back up the hill.

Up to this point, we were simply uncomfortable, unhappy, but dealing with what lay ahead of us. That was about to change abruptly.

Climbing the hill, we were back up another 500' when we came back to the water crossing. As we crossed, the dirt gave way. I'd had enough time to react, to hit reverse and engage the rear locker, but it just wasn't enough. In about a second, Stitch went from 10deg up, to rotating 90 degrees right and 60deg down, thunking into a tree. Straight out the windshield 30' below, large trees, rocks...

The next sound was our dog's nails on the Goose Gear floor, as she tried to grapple with a world turned on its side. Then, my wife said, "Hit SOS?"

A few months ago, we had invested in a Garmin InReach specifically for this type of situation. No cell, on our own, needing help. I simply said, "Yes." It was clear, our attempts at self-extraction, hanging by our seatbelts, had come to an end.

For a few minutes we just sat there. It will remain one of the more unnerving experiences of my life. Will we slip past the tree, to rocks below? Is the satellite comm (InReach) working? And, the unending subtle creaking of the jeep/suspension/tree.

After about 20 minutes, it seemed apparent that, under a tree canopy, we weren't getting a signal. I was going to have to get out. Before doing so, still idling in reverse, I tried the throttle. Not a budge. Hoped to at least dig a hole. Still idling in Reverse, got out gingerly, and let our dog out. Real trooper she was. The breed's known for being mentally stable and that was the case now.

My next step was to pull out tree and pull straps, and secure the jeep if I could. Stretched across the trail to another ~10" tree, I was able to do so. Very happy to have soft shackles...didn't need to screw with a d-ring. WV-5.JPG

I figured, if the Jeep slipped past the tree, it wouldn't move more than 6' before the slack was taken up.

Making sure my wife was Ok, it was time to find a bit of clear sky. 150' away, I was able to get a signal through. The international emergency service response was immediate. While maintaining connectivity remained an intermittent challenge, they immediately rallied local emergency services. 2-way texts, let me confirm number in party, no injuries, what was needed. And, in about 45 minutes, walking up the hill toward us, we heard, "Hello! Anyone there?" The GPS coords included when initially clicking SOS had brought first responders (picture two hikers with multiple radios and trauma packs) directly to us.

The first step was to extract my wife. Fighting my nerves, trying to turn me into a chatty-kathy, I stepped back and let them extract her. I figured for them, without emotional attachment, it's something they do more frequently than me. In 60 seconds, she was standing beside me.

What had started as an easy drive on a trail, turning to major physical exertion, stress, and sleeping mountainside (wondering when i'd see my own bed/shower again), had climaxed and now a path toward conclusion (TBD) lay before us.

Initially, we walked down the hill, across a stream, to pavement. There, we had EMS, (4) fire departments, 3 sheriff deputies, a wrecker crew, waiting. Easy 15+ people. After I returned to the Jeep with the owner of the wrecker company and fire fighters, we decided to leave the jeep and return the next day. After 2.5 hrs, I finally took Stitch out of Reverse, put him in Park, and shut down. It wasn't until Stitch lurched going into Park the mirror snapped.

You'll love this: EMS took my wife to town with them, so she was able o start lining up hotel, supplies, rental car, etc. The fire department dropped me off a couple hours later. I was so looking forward to a shower (we'd already been camping, so it'd been days). Only to find out, contractors had broken the town's water main. No water. (around 2:30a, found service had been restored, took shower, yeah!)

The next day, Jim Nelson, owner of Nelson Towing Service, picked me up. A 30 year-old army truck, 1 of 5 Cummings build (prototype program i guess). 54" tires. A beast. WV-4.JPG

Jim's run his wrecker service about 40 years and had the county contract with the State Police for such recoveries. At 76 years old, he was climbing the mountainside, rigging cables, driving the beast. I hope i'm doing so well...
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He sized it up, said what we'd be doing, (yes, a we, I was acting assistant) and in 5 minutes (once everything was set up), Stitch was back on 'flat' ground again.

It's been a long story, stretching 3 days, so I'll pull to a close. Limping down the mountain, -5- miles of trail back to the start, we were met by a USFS officer. She quietly asked my story. Did my best not to embellish. For one, I was exhausted, emotionally as well now. And, at the end of the day, I wasn't where I should be. Expect a fine. How much, TBD. She and her partner were taking their side-by-side up the trail to see how much damage we'd done. Paraphrasing, she suggested it may be low-end if we hadn't ripped stuff up (she noted minimal mud on Stitch--not ripping mud holes for instance) and no major foliage had been destroyed (i.e. cutting down 10"+ trees).

So, the costs? $2,300 tow, estimating $2,500 for emergency service reimbursements and $2,000 for USFS fine (some 'experienced' individuals were guessing $5K).

In the end:
My wife and I appreciate how 'close' we had come to a very different outcome. We were happy we'd done the best we could, including safety gear such as the InReach. We're good partners at this. And, we need to be more risk-adverse. After doing this for several years, we'd had some 'close calls,' yet nothing like this. Speaking for myself, I think overconfidence is something I'll be guarding against going forward.

We've another major trip yet this season, which I'll share then. We remain undaunted, but wiser and grateful to Him as well. I now also carry a spare front brake line, bottle of brake fluid (along with the needle nose vise grips I already had). Looking forward to clear trails for a while :).

Finally, aside from the broken mirror (which did not touch the body), this is the only damage:
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OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
That’s the longest fucking post for you losing some brake lines. Lock it out in first gear and use the ebrake as your brake and go back out the way you came. No NTSB incident and everyone is happen. Nobody has time to read all that shit. Not anyone here and not the NTSB.
 

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
Okay I read the whole noval. The parking brake works fine if it’s adjusted. And where did the brake line blow? A pair of vise grips on the braided line with build pressure back up and a kink in the hard line will do the same. This story should be your wake up call. You have zero business being on a trail by yourself. Z. E. R. O.
 

Elroy231

Active Member
Wow that's a helluva situation. Glad you came out okay with minimal damage. Could have been alot worse. Sounds like an expensive lesson.
 

MericaMade

Active Member
That’s the longest fucking post for you losing some brake lines. Lock it out in first gear and use the ebrake as your brake and go back out the way you came. No NTSB incident and everyone is happen. Nobody has time to read all that shit. Not anyone here and not the NTSB.
LOL, you crack me up. Glad your ok OP.
 

jtpedersen

Caught the Bug
That’s the longest fucking post for you losing some brake lines. Lock it out in first gear and use the ebrake as your brake and go back out the way you came. No NTSB incident and everyone is happen. Nobody has time to read all that shit. Not anyone here and not the NTSB.
Glad to hear you saved yourself a lot of time by not having read it then.
 

jtpedersen

Caught the Bug
Dear Lord. That's quite a story. How much food and water did you guys have?
We generally carry 5 gallons water, not counting other drinks we may also have. We top off whenever opportunity permits.

Okay I read the whole noval. The parking brake works fine if it’s adjusted. And where did the brake line blow? A pair of vise grips on the braided line with build pressure back up and a kink in the hard line will do the same. This story should be your wake up call. You have zero business being on a trail by yourself. Z. E. R. O.
My experience and of others I've discussed with, is the JK's ebrake is poor. It's a topic I've tried having dealers address and it's an item I've asked the shop to look at for me this week as well.

As for never wheel alone, it's a good principle to apply whenever possible. However, if I waited to only go exploring when there was someone else with the same time availability and interests as my wife and I, I'd be waiting in my recliner a long time.
 

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
Maybe
We generally carry 5 gallons water, not counting other drinks we may also have. We top off whenever opportunity permits.


My experience and of others I've discussed with, is the JK's ebrake is poor. It's a topic I've tried having dealers address and it's an item I've asked the shop to look at for me this week as well.

As for never wheel alone, it's a good principle to apply whenever possible. However, if I waited to only go exploring when there was someone else with the same time availability and interests as my wife and I, I'd be waiting in my recliner a long time.
you should sit in your recliner then. You will be a statistic. You are looking for sympathy with this post. This was all avoidable. You need a tac hammer to the head not someone feeing sorry for you.
 

Murphyfish

Caught the Bug
This right here is a case study in a simple analogy I have.
Its not 1 magic cheeseburger and you’re 400 pounds. You’re 400 pounds because of a series of cheeseburgers among other bad decisions.
When things happen that result in stuff like fatalities, serious injury, federal investigations, it wasn’t 1 mistake that led to tragedy. It’s a series of mistakes.
That whole thing you posted was loaded with mistake after mistake and not 1 attempt to mitigate any mistakes made.
Mistake #1 was wheeling on your own. We all do it, but for the most part, if I’m alone I stick to familiar trails. You can say this is a well traveled trail all you want, but you got lost and basically had to break brush as you decided to push forward rather than turn back.
Everything after that, I really have no words. That snowball was rolling down hill and no attempt was made to slow it down until it was hanging off a ledge and required rescue/recovery.
That fine you’re going to pay could have been put to better use like getting yourself a few classes in off-road ingenuity and tools/mods. Anyone on this site would have been more effective at clamping that brake line with what’s in their pockets right now rather than the absolute nothing you did.
Im glad you’re ok and everyone made it out with no real damage. I hope anyone who reads this recognizes a mistake when they make one and fix it. Continuing bad decision making will end up with results like this, or worse. This is a pretty high risk hobby we enjoy.
 

jtpedersen

Caught the Bug
Maybe

you should sit in your recliner then. You will be a statistic. You are looking for sympathy with this post. This was all avoidable. You need a tac hammer to the head not someone feeing sorry for you.

Criticism expected, and received, but if no one ever shares, there's nothing for others to learn from. Sympathy? Just you being a jerk again OverlanderJK. Nothing I said suggested anything like that. I don't seem to recall, in the years I've seen you blather on, admitting to an error in judgement.


......you got lost and basically had to break brush as you decided to push forward rather than turn back.

...Anyone on this site would have been more effective at clamping that brake line with what’s in their pockets right now rather than the absolute nothing you did...

Never actually 'lost,' had good maps, but maps don't always make life easy. As for push forward, explained why we couldn't go back. I'd have loved to just turn around and back track, wasn't an option.

Clamping a brake line, which I carry needle nose vise grips for, doesn't help if you've not brought brake fluid. What masked the situation was ABS kicking in. Thought it odd, but with mud under us, didn't realize a problem till too late. Brake fluid definitely stays in the kit now. And, those vice grips are how we got the 350 miles home (once we did get brake fluid).


In the end, I made mistakes, lessons learned, and perhaps someone's learned something at my expense.
 

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
Criticism expected, and received, but if no one ever shares, there's nothing for others to learn from. Sympathy? Just you being a jerk again OverlanderJK. Nothing I said suggested anything like that. I don't seem to recall, in the years I've seen you blather on, admitting to an error in judgement.




Never actually 'lost,' had good maps, but maps don't always make life easy. As for push forward, explained why we couldn't go back. I'd have loved to just turn around and back track, wasn't an option.

Clamping a brake line, which I carry needle nose vise grips for, doesn't help if you've not brought brake fluid. What masked the situation was ABS kicking in. Thought it odd, but with mud under us, didn't realize a problem till too late. Brake fluid definitely stays in the kit now. And, those vice grips are how we got the 350 miles home (once we did get brake fluid).


In the end, I made mistakes, lessons learned, and perhaps someone's learned something at my expense.
My error in judgement was reading this thread.
 
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