LOVE IT or HATE IT? JEEP's New Slogan - “Zero Emission Freedom”

[bobfriesenhahn]

So, here's some more food for thought. In California, only 34% of electricity comes from renewable resources. In states like Arizona, it's only about 6% unless you include environmentally damaging hydroelectric power. These are FACTS and ones that you can verify for yourself if you take the time to look. Just because a car or Jeep is electric doesn't necessarily mean that less pollution is being created.

After reading this I am not sure who to believe. I keep reading article after article about how solar cells and windmills need to be our energy future in order to save the planet. And that electric cars (vs hydrogen or a wind-up spring) are the only reasonable way to go. I read that we can all charge our electric cars at night using the solar grid.

I am still recovering from the great Texas grid failure due to a big freeze during which solar and wind produced almost nothing, but also natural gas plants shut down. And this is in a red-state which still uses a lot of renewable energy.

Who am I to believe?

 

[wayoflife]

After reading this I am not sure who to believe. I keep reading article after article about how solar cells and windmills need to be our energy future in order to save the planet. And that electric cars (vs hydrogen or a wind-up spring) are the only reasonable way to go. I read that we can all charge our electric cars at night using the solar grid.

I am still recovering from the great Texas grid failure due to a big freeze during which solar and wind produced almost nothing, but also natural gas plants shut down. And this is in a red-state which still uses a lot of renewable energy.

Who am I to believe?

All I can tell you is that the truth is out there. This is not Fox news or some other rightwing propaganda, this is directly from the California Energy Commission.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/california-power-generation-and-power-sources

And, for those of you in Arizona, this is from the EIA - U.S. Energy Information Administration and they give a more rosy number by saying "more than half" of the 14% of renewable energy produced is from solar.

U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis

www.eia.gov

Those are actual and factual numbers and the rest of the electricity has to come from somewhere. I'll be interested to see what these numbers look like in 4 years when most every new car made will need to be run off of electricity.

 

[Team.RGP]

If I can get 1000 kms range ( 620 miles) with one charge, and I can recharge 100% of the battery in less than 5 minutes…then yes, sign me in for the Zero Emission Freedom thing!

If not, I will keep my ecodiesel forever

 

[JK_0311]

LOL - that's a negative my friend. As I point out in my original post, the EPA is mandating new emissions standards in 2025. Companies are being FORCED to make these half assed options available and on a time table set by the government.

You live in Phoenix, a specific part of the Arizona desert that experiences night time inversion layers. This is a condition that's created when the air close to the ground cools faster than the air above and then cool air stacks on top of the warm air. What this does is traps the air closer to the ground, the one that contains things like carbon and nitrogen dioxide gas but ALSO construction related dust and fossil fuel particulates created from power plants, lawn mowers, leaf blowers, BBQ's, etc. This creates what you see and if you took the time, you could learn more about all this rather than just being sure of what you've been told.

Again, you're clearly too young to remember what a smog alert is and whatever you're seeing now is a far cry from what things used to be like. This is a good thing and something you should celebrate as science and technology made that possible.

I’m closing in on 40, so not that young, I don’t think we’ve ever had smog alerts in PHX, we have tons of air quality warnings (almost daily) due to all the commuting - during the height of the pandemic these were few and far in between because of the lack of people commuting in PHX. But you are proving my point for me, regardless of the heat inversion we face in the valley, it’s the nasty air from the transportation sector that is getting trapped. Our construction probably doesn’t kick up as much as you think and as they are heavily restricted and observed by county govt on dust control. I haven’t read the EPA mandates but I doubt it says anything about forcing them to go EV, just mpg standards which is nothing new and probably achievable without going EV. I get it, we all love our gas engines and I will never get rid of my Jeep or my old mopar but companies making this move is not a bad thing, that is all I am saying. We can agree to disagree.

 

[OverlanderJK]

After reading this I am not sure who to believe. I keep reading article after article about how solar cells and windmills need to be our energy future in order to save the planet. And that electric cars (vs hydrogen or a wind-up spring) are the only reasonable way to go. I read that we can all charge our electric cars at night using the solar grid.

I am still recovering from the great Texas grid failure due to a big freeze during which solar and wind produced almost nothing, but also natural gas plants shut down. And this is in a red-state which still uses a lot of renewable energy.

Who am I to believe?

Texas ain’t that red anymore.

 

[OverlanderJK]

I’m closing in on 40, so not that young, I don’t think we’ve ever had smog alerts in PHX, we have tons of air quality warnings (almost daily) due to all the commuting - during the height of the pandemic these were few and far in between because of the lack of people commuting in PHX. But you are proving my point for me, regardless of the heat inversion we face in the valley, it’s the nasty air from the transportation sector that is getting trapped. Our construction probably doesn’t kick up as much as you think and as they are heavily restricted and observed by county govt on dust control. I haven’t read the EPA mandates but I doubt it says anything about forcing them to go EV, just mpg standards which is nothing new and probably achievable without going EV. I get it, we all love our gas engines and I will never get rid of my Jeep or my old mopar but companies making this move is not a bad thing, that is all I am saying. We can agree to disagree.

This is dust generated from cutting some 1/4” steel in my garage. Imagine what all that construction in Phoenix is producing. Far more than you think I’m sure.

 

[wayoflife]

I’m closing in on 40, so not that young...

LOL - I remember being in my 30s - good times! Not sure why you're taking it as being some kind of a bad thing. All I'm saying is that you lack perspective. You think what you're seeing now is bad because you've never seen worse and really, you should be super happy about that. Things are in fact a LOT better and still getting better.

I don’t think we’ve ever had smog alerts in PHX, we have tons of air quality warnings (almost daily) due to all the commuting - during the height of the pandemic these were few and far in between because of the lack of people commuting in PHX. But you are proving my point for me, regardless of the heat inversion we face in the valley, it’s the nasty air from the transportation sector that is getting trapped. Our construction probably doesn’t kick up as much as you think and as they are heavily restricted and observed by county govt on dust control.

They're called night time or low pressure inversions, not "heat" inversions and just because you choose to believe your construction, "probably" doesn't kick up much dust thanks to "heavily restricted and observed government dust control", doesn't mean it's true. And, what I think is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that only 7% of your entire state production of electricity comes from renewable sources. Sure, it's 14% if you include hydroelectric power plants but that means a whopping 86% comes from pollution producing power plants. I realize this may be hard for you to understand but even if every single car, truck or Jeep were running on electricity today, that electricity would have to come from somewhere.

I haven’t read the EPA mandates but I doubt it says anything about forcing them to go EV, just mpg standards which is nothing new and probably achievable without going EV.

LOL - well, if you "doubt" what the EPA says without reading anything, it's "probably" true.

I get it, we all love our gas engines and I will never get rid of my Jeep or my old mopar but companies making this move is not a bad thing, that is all I am saying. We can agree to disagree.

And this is where I totally disagree. I am not in love with gas engines and I don't hate electric motors. I'm not even saying what Stellantis is doing is a bad thing. You gotta do what you gotta do to stay in business and I certainly don't fault them for that. However, you're kidding yourself if you really believe all this electric stuff will make your brown cloud go away. Of course, what would I know.

 

[wayoflife]

This is dust generated from cutting some 1/4” steel in my garage. Imagine what all that construction in Phoenix is producing. Far more than you think I’m sure.
View attachment 364949

Yeah, but that's because you don't have heavily restricted and observed government dust control in your garage. Duh!

 

[JK_0311]

This is dust generated from cutting some 1/4” steel in my garage. Imagine what all that construction in Phoenix is producing. Far more than you think I’m sure.
View attachment 364949

Dang that’s crazy, is that in your garage floor or in the air?

 

[JK_0311]

Dang that’s crazy, is that in your garage floor or in the air?

Yeah, but that's because you don't have heavily restricted and observed government dust control in your garage. Duh!

My response to construction was purely related to dust control in PHX/Maricopa, which is more regulated more than I’ve seen in any other sector of business. Who’s ever done construction in Maricopa County would understand that comment.

 

[JK_0311]

LOL - I remember being in my 30s - good times! Not sure why you're taking it as being some kind of a bad thing. All I'm saying is that you lack perspective. You think what you're seeing now is bad because you've never seen worse and really, you should be super happy about that. Things are in fact a LOT better and still getting better.

They're called night time or low pressure inversions, not "heat" inversions and just because you choose to believe your construction, "probably" doesn't kick up much dust thanks to "heavily restricted and observed government dust control", doesn't mean it's true. And, what I think is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that only 7% of your entire state production of electricity comes from renewable sources. Sure, it's 14% if you include hydroelectric power plants but that means a whopping 86% comes from pollution producing power plants. I realize this may be hard for you to understand but even if every single car, truck or Jeep were running on electricity today, that electricity would have to come from somewhere.

LOL - well, if you "doubt" what the EPA says without reading anything, it's "probably" true.

And this is where I totally disagree. I am not in love with gas engines and I don't hate electric motors. I'm not even saying what Stellantis is doing is a bad thing. You gotta do what you gotta do to stay in business and I certainly don't fault them for that. However, you're kidding yourself if you really believe all this electric stuff will make your brown cloud go away. Of course, what would I know.

I agree with perspective and will always appreciate those with more experience and historical reference. I would ask that why can’t things BE better? And why are things better now?

 

[WJCO]

Tim the tool man Taylor needs to become the CEO for stellantis.

 

[bittlen]

I think we should go solar - after China and India pave the way.

 

[wayoflife]

My response to construction was purely related to dust control in PHX/Maricopa, which is more regulated more than I’ve seen in any other sector of business. Who’s ever done construction in Maricopa County would understand that comment.

*sigh* Just like emissions, something that is heavily regulated and controlled by the government, construction dust is just ONE facet of what you see in the air. Of course, if you lived in an area that didn't have inversions, you probably wouldn't see anything at all.

I would ask that why can’t things BE better? And why are things better now?

I know you're having a really hard time understanding this but electric cars will NOT make things better, will not clean up your air especially in Phoenix or at least, not until or unless Arizona reduces their dependence on coal and natural gas for producing a VAST MAJORITY of your electricity. Of course, driving a Jeep that only has a 20 mile battery range and only a 370 mile total range burning gas, won't clean up your air either.

 

[wayoflife]

Tim the tool man Taylor needs to become the CEO for stellantis.

LOL - I think he already is at GM. At least they've stayed on the ball developing modern, powerful, cleaner burning and fuel efficient engines. Also, when it came time to release something like the new HUMMER, what they touted was things like a 1000 HP electric engine that does 0-60 in 3 seconds with rear steer, 6" auto lift and more! Of course, this as opposed to drivel about saving the planet with 20 mile range batteries and lame ass autonomous wheeling.

 

[wayoflife]

Also, I personally feel that it's disingenuous of Stellantis to suggest that "electrifying" (not the same thing as 100% EV) their Jeep brand somehow equals "zero emissions". Great sales pitch to the products of propaganda but hybrids still burn a ton of gas and so far, the range of their batteries is extremely underwhelming. Well, that and the fact that a majority of electricity in America is still produced by coal and gas power plants.

 

[JK_0311]

*sigh* Just like emissions, something that is heavily regulated and controlled by the government, construction dust is just ONE facet of what you see in the air. Of course, if you lived in an area that didn't have inversions, you probably wouldn't see anything at all.

I know you're having a really hard time understanding this but electric cars will NOT make things better, will not clean up your air especially in Phoenix or at least, not until or unless Arizona reduces their dependence on coal and natural gas for producing a VAST MAJORITY of your electricity. Of course, driving a Jeep that only has a 20 mile battery range and only a 370 mile total range burning gas, won't clean up your air either.

LOL, you’ve never done construction in Maricopa - Dust will shut a job site down - this is fact. Anyone in construction in the valley can attest to this.

And please, tell me how less emissions will NOT improve air quality? That’s like saying me farting less in the house will not help my wife breath fresher air in my house.

 

[JK_0311]

*sigh* Just like emissions, something that is heavily regulated and controlled by the government, construction dust is just ONE facet of what you see in the air. Of course, if you lived in an area that didn't have inversions, you probably wouldn't see anything at all.

I know you're having a really hard time understanding this but electric cars will NOT make things better, will not clean up your air especially in Phoenix or at least, not until or unless Arizona reduces their dependence on coal and natural gas for producing a VAST MAJORITY of your electricity. Of course, driving a Jeep that only has a 20 mile battery range and only a 370 mile total range burning gas, won't clean up your air either.

.

And your understanding on the energy in AZ is true to a point, it really doesn’t explain the brown could over phx. Coal and Nat Gas is not primarily generated in the valley. SO our energy sector does not contribute to our air quality in valley.

 

[HighwayTrout]

LOL, you’ve never done construction in Maricopa - Dust will shut a job site down - this is fact. Anyone in construction in the valley can attest to this.

And please, tell me how less emissions will NOT improve air quality? That’s like saying me farting less in the house will not help my wife breath fresher air in my house.

Because the emissions produced in the manufacturing of said EV’s and the production of electricity to “fuel” them far exceeds the amount produced by fossil fueled vehicles. The electricity has to come from somewhere and it is not green or free of emissions.

 

[wayoflife]

LOL, you’ve never done construction in Maricopa - Dust will shut a job site down - this is fact. Anyone in construction in the valley can attest to this.

Umm, my point exactly? That a LOT of the crap you see in the air is in fact from construction dust and not just car emissions.

And please, tell me how less emissions will NOT improve air quality? That’s like saying me farting less in the house will not help my wife breath fresher air in my house.

Wow... I mean, just wow. You really don't get it.

I really had no idea this would be so hard for you to understand but please, try to follow me for just a second here. A majority of electric power plants in Arizona are run on coal and gas and with about half of gas ones being in Maricopa county - you know, where Phoenix is. Burning gas produces air pollution. If all cars ran on electricity, MORE electricity would need to be produced and that would mean even more gas would need to be burned. Even if it's a Duracell, you can't just take a pair of AA batteries and use them to light up your whole house, turn on your TV, run your computer and charge up your phone.