From the horse mouth,2015 Wrangler diesel!
- Thread starter ssgp2
- Start date
ssgp2
Member
4 cylindre diesel for the Wrangler....
I hope it's a mistake or misunderstanding in the interview.
"How many engines could you build for Wrangler if you're also building diesel engines for the Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500?
That would be a different engine. It would be the four cylinder for the Wrangler.
It's a different assembly line. We have an easy capacity for 40,000 engines per year, and today we build 10,000 four-cylinders.
We are a supplier that is not designed for high-volume production. We are designed for lower-volume, so if we build one part number less than 60,000, that is our job where we are effective and good at. If we have to build 500,000 engines the same, that's not our job. I don't know that we're the best supplier for that.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130722/OEM10/307229998#ixzz2auV8fJQM
Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d...-big-opportunities-in-n-america#axzz2auQYURRs
PS: The above is an interview with a representative of VM Motori, not a Jeep/Chrysler employee.
I hope it's a mistake or misunderstanding in the interview.
"How many engines could you build for Wrangler if you're also building diesel engines for the Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500?
That would be a different engine. It would be the four cylinder for the Wrangler.
It's a different assembly line. We have an easy capacity for 40,000 engines per year, and today we build 10,000 four-cylinders.
We are a supplier that is not designed for high-volume production. We are designed for lower-volume, so if we build one part number less than 60,000, that is our job where we are effective and good at. If we have to build 500,000 engines the same, that's not our job. I don't know that we're the best supplier for that.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130722/OEM10/307229998#ixzz2auV8fJQM
Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d...-big-opportunities-in-n-america#axzz2auQYURRs
PS: The above is an interview with a representative of VM Motori, not a Jeep/Chrysler employee.
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NFRs2000NYC
Caught the Bug
Wow, that sucks, that sucks majorly. The 3.0 V6 is smooth, the 4 banger is a tractor engine.
ssgp2
Member
The VM Motori 6 cylindres is the way to go for multiple reasons.
VM Motori has a good reputation with they're diesel and the 8 speed ZF transmission is a perfect match. Sharing componants with the GC make good sense, it will keep the price down and parts available.
250HP and 420# of torque is way better than the 4 cylindres Cummins performances.
Not sure if the 6BT would fit in the Wrangler but its much heavier than the VM Motori.
I doubt the Cummins would pass emission regulations.
VM Motori has a good reputation with they're diesel and the 8 speed ZF transmission is a perfect match. Sharing componants with the GC make good sense, it will keep the price down and parts available.
250HP and 420# of torque is way better than the 4 cylindres Cummins performances.
Not sure if the 6BT would fit in the Wrangler but its much heavier than the VM Motori.
I doubt the Cummins would pass emission regulations.
IBeHeWhoIsJoshua
Caught the Bug
The 6bt is consistently more efficient then CARB standards. By more than a few years. However, the length/height and 1,250 lbs or so is an issue for our lil Wranglers. The 4bt is too tall, unbalanced, and out dated by emission standards. We would either get an updated version of the 4cyl VM engine that is in JK's for foreign markets or hopefully the 3.0 VM engine in the current GC.
Sent from my iPhone 5 using WAYALIFE mobile app
ssgp2
Member
These guys provide a conversion to the Cummins 4bt, you get 420ft/lbs of torque but only 170HP.
If I was living near this shop and owned an old Wrangler, Maybe I would consider the upgrade (18K$
).
Keeping my fingers crossed, 2015 with a CRD 3.0L
http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=9
More info on the 3.0L
"The 630T has the potential to make more than 600 hp in race trim. —Matt Trainham, Banks Powertrain Engineer"
"Banks & The 3.0L VM Motori V-6 engine
Since 1976 Gale Banks Engineering has been involved in building and supplying engines to the Military. During those 36 years every Gale Banks Military engine has had one dominant feature; they've all been turbocharged.
And because the Department of Defense is pushing our armed forces to use a single fuel (known as JP-8, which is very similar to diesel), Banks' current programs all revolve around diesel engines.
Banks' current military V-8 programs are based on the 6.6L Duramax long-block with with Banks external components and engine management. Higher power versions use Banks internal components as well. According to Banks, its defense customers use these engines in vehicles up to 30,000 pounds GCWR. Banks has also gotten back to its 6.2L/6.5L roots with a new power upgrade for 6.5L motivated AM General HMMWVs.
But for wheeled-vehicle applications used inrapid surgical strikes, a lightweight and high-speed diesel is required. That’s where the VM Motori engine from Italy comes in to play.
The guys at VM are located in the high-performance automotive equivalent of the Silicon Valley, with Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Ducati close by. The design of its V-6 is intended for firing pressures up to 2,940-psi, and the engine freely revs to 5,000 rpm. VM Motori has a passion for its engine designs, and according to Gale Banks it was, “the excellence of this engine [which]convinced me that it would be a rugged basis for what I have in mind for these new Special Operations vehicles.”
Banks went on to say, “We had first fire in our engine test cells on Friday May 4th, 2012 and my first impression was about the sound...this thing is sweet! The low-end response is excellent and it revs freely, which worries me. We've already designed a high-rpm capable aluminum intake manifold for it but, our Banks AutoMind diesel engine controller is only good to 7,800 rpm in its current form.”
A Banks version of the 3.0L VM Motori V-6 engine will be also be available to the general public as well, according to Banks. “Our initial build will be 240 hp and close to 500 lb ft with an engine weight under 500 pounds,” reports Banks.
When asked what other applications we might see this engine in, Banks told us, “We have a stepped power development plan in the works and racing versions will emerge as well. I can't wait to put one of these things in my '06 Jeep Wrangler!”
"
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html
If I was living near this shop and owned an old Wrangler, Maybe I would consider the upgrade (18K$
).Keeping my fingers crossed, 2015 with a CRD 3.0L
http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=9
More info on the 3.0L
"The 630T has the potential to make more than 600 hp in race trim. —Matt Trainham, Banks Powertrain Engineer"
"Banks & The 3.0L VM Motori V-6 engine
Since 1976 Gale Banks Engineering has been involved in building and supplying engines to the Military. During those 36 years every Gale Banks Military engine has had one dominant feature; they've all been turbocharged.
And because the Department of Defense is pushing our armed forces to use a single fuel (known as JP-8, which is very similar to diesel), Banks' current programs all revolve around diesel engines.
Banks' current military V-8 programs are based on the 6.6L Duramax long-block with with Banks external components and engine management. Higher power versions use Banks internal components as well. According to Banks, its defense customers use these engines in vehicles up to 30,000 pounds GCWR. Banks has also gotten back to its 6.2L/6.5L roots with a new power upgrade for 6.5L motivated AM General HMMWVs.
But for wheeled-vehicle applications used inrapid surgical strikes, a lightweight and high-speed diesel is required. That’s where the VM Motori engine from Italy comes in to play.
The guys at VM are located in the high-performance automotive equivalent of the Silicon Valley, with Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Ducati close by. The design of its V-6 is intended for firing pressures up to 2,940-psi, and the engine freely revs to 5,000 rpm. VM Motori has a passion for its engine designs, and according to Gale Banks it was, “the excellence of this engine [which]convinced me that it would be a rugged basis for what I have in mind for these new Special Operations vehicles.”
Banks went on to say, “We had first fire in our engine test cells on Friday May 4th, 2012 and my first impression was about the sound...this thing is sweet! The low-end response is excellent and it revs freely, which worries me. We've already designed a high-rpm capable aluminum intake manifold for it but, our Banks AutoMind diesel engine controller is only good to 7,800 rpm in its current form.”
A Banks version of the 3.0L VM Motori V-6 engine will be also be available to the general public as well, according to Banks. “Our initial build will be 240 hp and close to 500 lb ft with an engine weight under 500 pounds,” reports Banks.
When asked what other applications we might see this engine in, Banks told us, “We have a stepped power development plan in the works and racing versions will emerge as well. I can't wait to put one of these things in my '06 Jeep Wrangler!”
"
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html
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StrizzyChris
New member
My guess would be the brand new diesel in the GC. Mike Manley hinted at this last January when they layed out their plan for Jeep brand in a Chrysler Fiat group conference.
IBeHeWhoIsJoshua
Caught the Bug
He also mentioned it in that Part 2 video. I would seriously trade my JKUS in for a Rubicon with the 3.0 VM in it... :driving:
NFRs2000NYC
Caught the Bug
I think he mentioned that the JK (or wrangler) is going to get a diesel, but I don't think he specified "which" diesel. Trust me, I hope Im wrong.
IBeHeWhoIsJoshua
Caught the Bug
In that video he kept talking about the same diesel in the GC...the 3.0...I can't remember where I was reading but, I did read that JEEP had to do something funky just to get the 3.6 in the JK, which is why they only offer the 2.8 VM now for export and that the previous and new generation 3.0 VM would require a new generation Wrangler for it to fit the way they want or probably for whatever standards that are in place by governing bodies. From what I have read on the internets from guys who have imported the 2.8 VM JK's about their experience with it, I wouldn't be against that if it was our only option for a diesel... Really wish they would at least give us a Hemi option at ordering time as I have seen stealerships selling new JK's with the Hemi using the MOPAR kit and offering factory warranties. More engine options either way would be awesome.
NFRs2000NYC
Caught the Bug
Ive been talking about this on another forum with a member from europe who owns the 2.8. He is claiming he consistently gets 22-24mpg with a 370 mile range. That is TERRIBLE. I was getting 350-360 on my colorado trip per tank, and thats with a fully loaded rig, with 3.21s, on 33x12.50 tires. Granted, he might have gotten that with a bit less gas, but that's irrelevant to me. One of the main reasons I want a diesel is for range. I want AT LEAST a 500 mile range, but 600 should be feasible with the right motor and gearing. The 2.8 is just too small for a vehicle as heavy as a wrangler. Underpowering a vehicle is worse for fuel economy than overpowering it. The 3.0 will be able to lug the JK without a sweat, keep the rpms low, and keep the mpg high. Using a small 4 banger for a 5500lb beast is like putting a heart from a 7 year old girl and expecting it to run the body of Arnold Swartzenegger...it's just too much work, so it works much harder and much less efficient. On the other hand, putting the heart of an elephant into the body of Arnold would make it EASIER on the heart, so the heart can function more efficiently. There is nothing worse than when a vehicle comes equipped with a motor not stong enough to get the job done.
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IBeHeWhoIsJoshua
Caught the Bug
The guys I was reading on the internets were claiming closer to 30 mpg with 37's and proper gearing. I would say your buddy is seeing more realistic numbers and not much better than my 20-21 I get now...I agree with your range expectation and that the 3.0 will be a much better choice. Gotta keep our fingers crossed!
Sent from my iPhone 5 using WAYALIFE mobile app
windowlicker
New member
I have a 2009 JKU with the 2.8 CRD and 6 speed stick, here in the UK. It has stock 3.73 gears and Rubicon wheels with stock 32" Goodyear tyres. I consistently get 30mpg on my short commute to work, and 35mpg on a run. That's Imperial gallons, so about 25 and 29 respectively to a US gallon.The low fuel light never comes on before 500 miles.
It never feels short of power. It has more torque than a Hemi at low rpm, and the Turbo gives plenty of passing power. I have driven auto CRDs, and they don't feel as lively, partly due to the taller gearing (3.23:1). The autos are also approximately 20% worse on mileage.
Having said all that, I can't wait for the 3.0 V6 CRD version to hit the showrooms. It is already available in our Grand Cherokees, and it is a peach of an engine.
It never feels short of power. It has more torque than a Hemi at low rpm, and the Turbo gives plenty of passing power. I have driven auto CRDs, and they don't feel as lively, partly due to the taller gearing (3.23:1). The autos are also approximately 20% worse on mileage.
Having said all that, I can't wait for the 3.0 V6 CRD version to hit the showrooms. It is already available in our Grand Cherokees, and it is a peach of an engine.