A lift that rides better than stock...truth or fiction??

[MTG]

I can't tell if DWiggles is a troll, a woman, or just stupid.

Your forgot Texan.

 

[Canvas JK]

Your forgot Texan.

Easy there Turbo.

 

[MTG]

Easy there Turbo.

Oh yeah, I forgot. let me slow it down for you...

You...forgot...Texan.

 

[MR.Ty]

DWiggles....

 

[DWiggles]

this brings up great points! :thumb:

Nope, I sure didn't but sure wish I had. I've probably spent more money building my Jeep, re-building my Jeep, re-building it again and again and again and again than I would have had I been able to just do it right the first time. Unfortunately, over the last 8 years, I could only work with what was available as none of the great stuff that is available now was available then.

Isn't it cool how we've been able to document the progress of our Jeeps over the years for guys like you to benefit from? I mean, if you think about it, we've been using our Jeeps to test components out back when they first came out, found out what problems there were with them and then got to spend more of our money doing it again with better parts developed from the new knowledge we acquired.

Yes, the old coil overs we had were 14" but we could never use their full potential due to the fact that they would droop enough to cause our drive line to bind. In order to mitigate this, we ended up having to run limiting straps. The NEW EVO DTD towers are designed differently than the original ones and this allows for a lower stance and a greater amount of articulation with just 12" coil overs. Because of it's design, you will STILL get 14" of vertical travel AND without having to run limiting straps.



Unlike ANY OTHER COIL OVER SYSTEM out there, the EVO lever will allow you to obtain a true 14" of vertical travel while keeping your coil overs completely out of harms way. ALL the other systems including the bolt-on kit they offer hangs down and can be damaged by rocks on the trail. I used to run the bolt-on kit on my dozer JK and have damaged them in this very way. This has NEVER happened with my EVO lever. Also, the bolt-on kit only offers 11.25" of vertical travel - NOT 14" like the EVO lever. Aside from that, they are BOTH coil overs and will need to be treated the same in terms of maintenance.

While I love watching your videos, and watching you jeeps unfold the way they have, I'm glad as heck, that it wasn't my money! It truly is a pleasure to be able to talk with people who have experience with the products. and that's what the forum site really boils down too. so thank you for BOTH your experience, and a place to discuss it. :clap2:

I would have never know of the droop issue of a 14" coilover if someone had not mentioned it. (although this was NOT an issue with the 12" setup? so one being 12" and the other being 14" isn't the only difference between the two... )

you also bring up some very important points about the EvoLever keeping the coilovers out of harms way. I wouldn't have thought that to be an issue as the boltons/factory shocks are tucked right behind the rear wheels, but on the rocks, it is a possible "trouble spot" and would be nice piece of mind to have them out of harms way. :thumb:

What kind of maintenance is involved with the lever setup (aside from the obvious *clean from debrigs* and coilover care)? Do you need to grease the hinges regularly or anything like that? what about noise? with additional mechanical movement, I would imagine some additional suspension sound from the rear. what is that like? I'm sure its not a make/break piece of knowledge, I'm just curious. :thumb:

 

[wayoflife]

i would have never know of the droop issue of a 14" coilover if someone had not mentioned it. (although this was NOT an issue with the 12" setup? so one being 12" and the other being 14" isn't the only difference between the two... )

Not to belabor the point but, EVO hasn't offered a 14" coil over for a long time now and for the companies that still do, the 2" difference is the only difference between the two.

you also bring up some very important points about the EvoLever keeping the coilovers out of harms way. I wouldn't have thought that to be an issue as the boltons/factory shocks are tucked right behind the rear wheels, but on the rocks, it is a possible "trouble spot" and would be nice piece of mind to have them out of harms way. :thumb:

Since you seemed to have missed it, them being out of harms way is just a perk. The 14" of vertical travel WITHOUT having to cut into the body is the main reason for the cantilever design. In fact, the EVO lever was released way before there was ever a bolt-on option. The later was only offered to help people on a budget run coil overs too. As you may or may not know, we were one of the first to test out the bolt-on kit on our dozer JK but have since upgraded it to DTD. Wanna guess why?

What kind of maintenance is involved with the lever setup (aside from the obvious *clean from debrigs* and coilover care)? Do you need to grease the hinges regularly or anything like that? what about noise? with additional mechanical movement, I would imagine some additional suspension sound from the rear. what is that like? I'm sure its not a make/break piece of knowledge, I'm just curious. :thumb:

The cantilever arms do have zerk fittings that you will want to grease as a part of routine maintenance - just as you would with your control arms or any other joints on your Jeep. The cantilever links have heims that will last a long time but will eventually have to be replaced as a part of routine maintenance as well.

 

[DWiggles]

Not to belabor the point but, EVO hasn't offered a 14" coil over for a long time now and for the companies that still do, the 2" difference is the only difference between the two.



Since you seemed to have missed it, them being out of harms way is just a perk. The 14" of vertical travel WITHOUT having to cut into the body is the main reason for the cantilever design. In fact, the EVO lever was released way before there was ever a bolt-on option. The later was only offered to help people on a budget run coil overs too. As you may or may not know, we were one of the first to test out the bolt-on kit on our dozer JK but have since upgraded it to DTD. Wanna guess why?



The cantilever arms do have zerk fittings that you will want to grease as a part of routine maintenance - just as you would with your control arms or any other joints on your Jeep. The cantilever links have heims that will last a long time but will eventually have to be replaced as a part of routine maintenance as well.

Awesome, thank you for sharing that information. This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

What about your white jeep (moby), You guys were running the EvoLever on that jeep before the DTD. Was the DTD upgrade because you were running fast though the fire roads more often then not? Or Is there a ride quality difference between the DTD, and the "standard" EvoLever? Or does the DTD system only benifit "at speed"?

 

[wayoflife]

What about your white jeep (moby), You guys were running the EvoLever on that jeep before the DTD. Was the DTD upgrade because you were running fast though the fire roads more often then not? Or Is there a ride quality difference between the DTD, and the "standard" EvoLever? Or does the DTD system only benifit "at speed"?

Yes, we were running the EVO Lever BEFORE it was offered with the addition of bypass shocks. We made the upgrade because we enjoy bombing through the desert. The DTD is ONLY beneficial IF you plan on driving hard and fast over big terrain. If all you do is rock crawl or just use your Jeep as a DD, there is no need for the bypass shocks that come with the DTD.

 

[DWiggles]

Yes, we were running the EVO Lever BEFORE it was offered with the addition of bypass shocks. We made the upgrade because we enjoy bombing through the desert. The DTD is ONLY beneficial IF you plan on driving hard and fast over big terrain. If all you do is rock crawl or just use your Jeep as a DD, there is no need for the bypass shocks that come with the DTD.

Ok, that lines up exactly with what I have read. What I am interested in in crawling and highway manners. I am just trying to figure out what setup would be best for my jeep. It sounds like the evolever is the way to go for the rear. Thank you for clearing that up.

Now I just have to figure out the front. I would hate to purchase the DTD system without the bypass shocks and have a shock mount I will never utalize. Is there a front coilover kit that offers the travel benifits (14") without the necessity of incomplete bracketry?

 

[wayoflife]

Ok, that lines up exactly with what I have read. What I am interested in in crawling and highway manners. I am just trying to figure out what setup would be best for my jeep. It sounds like the evolever is the way to go for the rear. Thank you for clearing that up.

Now I just have to figure out the front. I would hate to purchase the DTD system without the bypass shocks and have a shock mount I will never utalize. Is there a front coilover kit that offers the travel benifits (14") without the necessity of incomplete bracketry?

I'm not sure I'm following you. There are plenty of people who run the DTD system up front WITHOUT the bypass shocks and it's a great setup. It is essentially what I was running before I got bypass shocks. I would NOT mix and match coil over kits.

 

[piginajeep]

The brackets are complete. You are just excluding the bypass shocks. That you can easily install at anytime

 

[DWiggles]

I'm not sure I'm following you. There are plenty of people who run the DTD system up front WITHOUT the bypass shocks and it's a great setup. It is essentially what I was running before I got bypass shocks. I would NOT mix and match coil over kits.

Good advice, I would have thought to run the bolt on fronts, with the EvoLever rear. But perhaps that's not the correct way of thinking. this was essentially the difference in the kits on moby, correct?

I don't want to waste a sales guys time at ORE, I'll bother then when I'm at the point of just dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's"
asking a research question, does anyone know the approximate difference in the DTD package w/o bypass shocks vs the full blown DTD kit?

 

[wayoflife]

Good advice, I would have thought to run the bolt on fronts, with the EvoLever rear. But perhaps that's not the correct way of thinking. this was essentially the difference in the kits on moby, correct?

The coilovers that you get with the DTD kit are NOT the same as what you would get with the bolt-on kit. Moby NEVER ran the bolt-on kit.

 

[DWiggles]

The coilovers that you get with the DTD kit are NOT the same as what you would get with the bolt-on kit. Moby NEVER ran the bolt-on kit.

Sorry for the confusion, I ment the kit you were running on moby before the bypass shocks were available. I'm understanding that is what you were referring to as "essentially the DTD without the bypass shock" is that correct? Or did I miss read?

 

[wayoflife]

Sorry for the confusion, I ment the kit you were running on moby before the bypass shocks were available. I'm understanding that is what you were referring to as "essentially the DTD without the bypass shock" is that correct? Or did I miss read?

Yes, you are understanding correctly. Moby was running the first generation coil over kit that EVO made and it was essentially a DTD without the bypass shocks.

 

[wayoflife]

Don't take this the wrong way but you don't need a lift to do anything shown in these pics.

:cheesy:.............

 

[DWiggles]

Yes, you are understanding correctly. Moby was running the first generation coil over kit that EVO made and it was essentially a DTD without the bypass shocks.

Awesome! Thank you very much for answering my questions. I have just one more technical question on this topic for now to anyone in the know:

Without the bypass shocks, the bump stops will be necessary, but not limiting straps? Is that correct? And with the bypass shocks, the bump stops are essentually built into the bypass? Just things to weight out cost wise.

I am also interested if anyone has any in site on the ballpark cost difference between the DTD w/ bypass f&r vs the DTD w/o bypass f/r.

I'm starting to think this will be the way to go, because IF I ever have the desire to turn things up to 11, all I'll need to do is add the shocks. I'm sure I'll have questions about complementing the setup (long arms, axle specifics when I get there, along with little bits along the way) thanks for all the info! :yep:

 

[wayoflife]

Without the bypass shocks, the bump stops will be necessary, but not limiting straps? Is that correct? And with the bypass shocks, the bump stops are essentually built into the bypass? Just things to weight out cost wise.

You will not need limiting straps as your shock length will limit your droop. You will not be able to run front bump stops but unless you plan on driving hard and fast enough to need them, you will be fine without them. If you think you'll need bump stops, you really should be looking at getting the DTD.

I am also interested if anyone has any in site on the ballpark cost difference between the DTD w/ bypass f&r vs the DTD w/o bypass f/r.

Don't quote me on this but I believe the ballpark to on add bypass shocks later is something like $1200 per side.

 

[DWiggles]

You will not need limiting straps as your shock length will limit your droop. You will not be able to run front bump stops but unless you plan on driving hard and fast enough to need them, you will be fine without them. If you think you'll need bump stops, you really should be looking at getting the DTD.

Awesome, more money to set aside for my rainny axle days... :yep:

Don't quote me on this but I believe the ballpark to on add bypass shocks later is something like (not quoted) per side.

By per side do you mean per axle? Or per tire? And would this be the same "discount" to be expected from omitting them from the initial purchase?

 

[wayoflife]

By per side do you mean per axle? Or per tire? And would this be the same "discount" to be expected from omitting them from the initial purchase?

Per axle and approximately. Again, if you want hard numbers, you should call up ORE.