Sleeve and Gusset my Rubicon D44 front axle? Yes or No

While I too like the comparison, I don’t feel it is fair or completely accurate. My explanation of why is going to get long winded so sit tight lol :munching:

Because in that comparison you are adding another variable. You’re adding the properties of glue, not a weld. A weld does not saturate the entire length the tube like in the making of plywood or adding glue to the whole face of a card.

If you take a single playing card and measure the force required to bend it then it will be very little. If you take 10 playing cards then that required force is exponentially higher (when looked at in respect of the scale), which is what adding a sleeve of any form would do. If you take those same playing cards and drill verticle holes throughout the stack, then put a plug fusing them(like tubes are welded and not how plywood is made) vs. teeth friction(how nitro tubes are held), which one would be more structurally sound? Ultimately the only difference we are talking about is the lateral support the weld gives the sleeve from sliding inside the axle tube. Is it stronger? I would assume so, but to what degree I am not sure. But I don’t think it’s that simple.

sorry, gonna have to disagree with you here. you ever do any construction? to make floors more rigid/prevent deflection, you can add a 2nd sheet of plywood to the top of the first and simply screw or even nail it in place. this is similar to the rosette welding process as the 2 sheets do not have to be "glued" together to still provide the desired results. IF the tolerances of the sleeve were so tight that a press was required to install them (much like axle tubes are pressed into a differential housing and i should add, STILL get welded in place), you might have an argument BUT, if you can actually just hammer them in, i have a hard time believing there would be enough friction to do much of anything. even if the sleeves have teeth, there aren't any on the inside of the axle tube for them to grab onto or, not that i know of anyway so not only are they irrelevant, they would in fact REDUCE the amount of surface area that would otherwise provide friction.

what it all boils down to is that this company realized that there are a lot of scared people who feel the need to beef up their axle and don't like the idea of drilling holes and welding things. needless to say, they came out with this do it yourself solution and really, it's a great marketing scheme and one that might even provide a tiny bit of extra strength. but, unless someone can prove otherwise, that's about all it is. of course, that's just me.

BUT...since we are talking paper and friction...It reminded me of a mythbusters I watched and thought I would share \/this\/. No glue used!

great episode but, i hardly think that teeth on a tube would give you the same frictional bond as a thousand sheets of paper essentially laminated together.
 
sorry, gonna have to disagree with you here. BUT, if you can actually just hammer them in, i have a hard time believing there would be enough friction to do much of anything. even if the sleeves have teeth, there aren't any on the inside of the axle tube for them to grab onto or, not that i know of anyway so not only are they irrelevant, they would in fact REDUCE the amount of surface area that would otherwise provide friction.

No need to be sorry, I like a debate and different perspective. I 100% agree there is no way that the added strength by a "slip in" sleeve could be greater on something that is welded in. I know that most reviews state that the Nitro's had to be placed into a chest freezer for 24 hours prior to install because the knurl wouldnt fit and this is had much force required to install even them. I'm assuming that they expand and form a very tight fit, but to what degree I am unsure. I am still curious to see the numbers of both.

great episode but, i hardly think that teeth on a tube would give you the same frictional bond as a thousand sheets of paper essentially laminated together.

I wasnt meaning to imply that this was the same as a single sleeve inside the tube, but rather a fun video on the power friction.
 
No need to be sorry, I like a debate and different perspective. I 100% agree there is no way that the added strength by a "slip in" sleeve could be greater on something that is welded in. I know that most reviews state that the Nitro's had to be placed into a chest freezer for 24 hours prior to install because the knurl wouldnt fit and this is had much force required to install even them. I'm assuming that they expand and form a very tight fit, but to what degree I am unsure. I am still curious to see the numbers of both.

truth be told, by the time most people install their sleeves, there is a slight amount of bend to the factory axle tube and this often makes installation of any sleeve a bit difficult. the freezing process helps in general but again, if you can actually pound in a sleeve with a hammer, frozen or not, the tolerances are still far too great. again, if you've ever seen an axle being made, you would see that an industrial press is needed to press in the axle tubes into the differential housing. this alone should be good enough to hold it in place but, for good measure, they are still rosette welded to ensure it. but let's cut to what really mater - evo openly advertises that their sleeves will provide 30% more strength. to the best of my knowledge, i have never seen nitro say one way or another how much strength their hammer in sleeves provide. just sayin.

of course, you're talking to a guy who doesn't even feel the need to run sleeves, never did on moby and still don't on rubicat. :crazyeyes:

I wasnt meaning to imply that this was the same as a single sleeve inside the tube, but rather a fun video on the power friction.

indeed, it was a fun episode.
 
I am aware this is an old thread. However I thought I would update the info stream. If memory serves we well, I installed the sleeves in 2014. Around Father's Day. This morning I noticed a bit of rust dust coming from the tube end. Turns out the Axle shaft is making contact with the sleeve. I got under to inspect a bit closer. What I found was a crack about 2 inches long. About 1 inch from either side of one of the spot welds. Not a good sign. We don't wheel hard at all. So not sure what factors brought us to this unfortunate conclusion. If I were to do anything to a D44, it would be installing an EVO truss rather than sleeves. :twocents:
 
I am aware this is an old thread. However I thought I would update the info stream. If memory serves we well, I installed the sleeves in 2014. Around Father's Day. This morning I noticed a bit of rust dust coming from the tube end. Turns out the Axle shaft is making contact with the sleeve. I got under to inspect a bit closer. What I found was a crack about 2 inches long. About 1 inch from either side of one of the spot welds. Not a good sign. We don't wheel hard at all. So not sure what factors brought us to this unfortunate conclusion. If I were to do anything to a D44, it would be installing an EVO truss rather than sleeves. :twocents:

Thanks for the update, I'm sure it will help others. That being said, a truss really isn't that much better and not exactly what I would consider to be a solution, even if it's made by EVO. Of course, that's just me.
 
Thanks for the update, I'm sure it will help others. That being said, a truss really isn't that much better and not exactly what I would consider to be a solution, even if it's made by EVO. Of course, that's just me.

Not having any experience with a truss kit, I will take your word for it.


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Thanks for the update, I'm sure it will help others. That being said, a truss really isn't that much better and not exactly what I would consider to be a solution, even if it's made by EVO. Of course, that's just me.

Had an EVO truss here. Axle still bent.
 
I’m the odd man out here. But I have a trussed/gusseted Dana 44 with some heavy Toyo 37x14.5s on steel wheels. I wheel most weekends, and I have no bending or issues yet.


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I’m the odd man out here. But I have a trussed/gusseted Dana 44 with some heavy Toyo 37x14.5s on steel wheels. I wheel most weekends, and I have no bending or issues yet.

Your Jeep sits on top of your axle, not the other way around. How heavy your tires are will make no difference in whether or not your axle housing will bend. As far as wheeling goes, clearly, we all have our own idea of what that means.
 
Your Jeep sits on top of your axle, not the other way around. How heavy your tires are will make no difference in whether or not your axle housing will bend. As far as wheeling goes, clearly, we all have our own idea of what that means.

Yeah, that’s true. Wonder if it could be more that I’ve got a pretty light two door build. As opposed to a lot of the heavier JKUs here. Maybe it’s dumb luck. I just know it’s worked for me and everything I’ve done so far.


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Yeah, that’s true. Wonder if it could be more that I’ve got a pretty light two door build. As opposed to a lot of the heavier JKUs here. Maybe it’s dumb luck. I just know it’s worked for me and everything I’ve done so far.

A 2-door will fair better than a 4-door and speed will break more stuff than any crawling could ever hope to. That being said, I ran the factory front 44 on Rubicat without any modifications for about 50,000 miles before finally replacing it with a ProRock 44. Sure made it easier and a lot faster to save up for it by not throwing any money at the factory axle. Of course, I had done it the other way in the past and learned from my mistakes.
 
The JK front axle bending is a bit confusing to me. I seem to hear about it a lot for JK's, but not TJ's. I've wheeled a TJ with 35's, 4.56's, and an ARB in a Dana 30, and haven't had issues yet. Eventually I want 37's for the JK, I'm contemplating swapping in a Recon housing with the thicker tubes and C's, plus probably RCV shafts.
 
The JK front axle bending is a bit confusing to me. I seem to hear about it a lot for JK's, but not TJ's. I've wheeled a TJ with 35's, 4.56's, and an ARB in a Dana 30, and haven't had issues yet. Eventually I want 37's for the JK, I'm contemplating swapping in a Recon housing with the thicker tubes and C's, plus probably RCV shafts.

A JK is much heavier than a TJ.


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True, but isn't a JK Dana 44 beefier than a TJ Dana 44?

A JK Front Dana 44 is only a 44 because of it's ring and pinion and shafts. The tubes, end forgings and knuckles are all Dana 30. Also, the JK axles are WIDER than a TJ as in, they have LONGER tubes.
 
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