Gibson Headers

I had a similar set of headers. Locking header bolts are a must. Stock ones WILL vibrate out. Also had an issue with the spark plug wires melting do to the added heat. They would last about a month or so. I had to fiberglass wrap the headers and the plug wires to fix the melting issue. They definitely sound good and add some power. Gave me an extra 1 mpg also.
 
I finished the install tonight. My arms are scrapped and cut to my elbows. After more than 12 hours work, the left side has an exhaust leak I can't workout. The leak is at the joining point of the header and exhaust pipe. I think because the flange is not threaded and has a rectangle hole (no shit!) it has to much wiggle room so it's not seating correctly. I drove it anyway. I was able to make my 33's bark a lil. Which it wouldn't do before, so there might be some gain on the low end. Over all, I would have saved the $400 bucks and put it in the LS3 swap fund... they were a total pain in the ass to install. The heat shields attached with a hose clap (what a joke) I guess some engineer thought it would be funny. Any way I'll post some pic tomorrow after I tighten everything up.


parati ad omnia!
 
HoldMyBeer08JKU said:
I finished the install tonight. My arms are scrapped and cut to my elbows. After more than 12 hours work, the left side has an exhaust leak I can't workout. The leak is at the joining point of the header and exhaust pipe. I think because the flange is not threaded and has a rectangle hole (no shit!) it has to much wiggle room so it's not seating correctly. I drove it anyway. I was able to make my 33's bark a lil. Which it wouldn't do before, so there might be some gain on the low end. Over all, I would have saved the $400 bucks and put it in the LS3 swap fund... they were a total pain in the ass to install. The heat shields attached with a hose clap (what a joke) I guess some engineer thought it would be funny. Any way I'll post some pic tomorrow after I tighten everything up.


parati ad omnia!
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you used the gaskets that came with them and they still have a leak?

my 3.8 never ran right with the Gibson headers, wouldn't idle, even after getting custom angle plugs to keep them from melting and the ridiculous amount of heat shield and heat sleeves on the plugs it still ran rough.

once I installed the stock headers it idles smooth and all other misfire issues gone.

let us know how it's running after a month, I'm pissed off I spent that kind of money and still have the headers in the closet. I'm tempted to install them again just cause they piss me off lol
 
jeeeep said:
you used the gaskets that came with them and they still have a leak?

my 3.8 never ran right with the Gibson headers, wouldn't idle, even after getting custom angle plugs to keep them from melting and the ridiculous amount of heat shield and heat sleeves on the plugs it still ran rough.

once I installed the stock headers it idles smooth and all other misfire issues gone.

let us know how it's running after a month, I'm pissed off I spent that kind of money and still have the headers in the closet. I'm tempted to install them again just cause they piss me off lol
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I noticed this morning it is now leaking a tiny bit of oil from the back of the block. LS3 swap might come sooner than expected. It ran great on the way to work. The leak is at the flange where the exhaust pipe connects. The gaskets are solid.


parati ad omnia!
 
HoldMyBeer08JKU said:
I noticed this morning it is now leaking a tiny bit of oil from the back of the block. LS3 swap might come sooner than expected. It ran great on the way to work. The leak is at the flange where the exhaust pipe connects. The gaskets are solid.


parati ad omnia!
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Auto parts store carry an exhaust sealant, it's like a paste. It may even be made by Permatex, I can't remember. If you keep trying and can't get that connection sealed, you can put some of that stuff on both pieces, then bolt it back and see if you have any luck.
 
WJCO said:
Auto parts store carry an exhaust sealant, it's like a paste. It may even be made by Permatex, I can't remember. If you keep trying and can't get that connection sealed, you can put some of that stuff on both pieces, then bolt it back and see if you have any luck.
Click to expand...


Okay. I'm going to call Gibson today. I think it's a defect in the header, because I didn't have this problem with the stock manifold.


parati ad omnia!
 
HoldMyBeer08JKU said:
Okay. I'm going to call Gibson today. I think it's a defect in the header, because I didn't have this problem with the stock manifold.


parati ad omnia!
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I bought a set of Gibson shorty's for my previous vehicle (99 F-150) and had the same issues. Exhaust leak was at the pipe/header connection. It couldn't be resolved even by a custom exhaust shop.

I hope your situation turns out better than mine did. Good luck!


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Overall "build thread"
http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?26097-I-guess-it-s-the-quot-Super-Stocker-quot-build

DIY trail/tube door build http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?24449-My-DIY-Doors
 
I believe that Chrysler, just like all other car companies that develop new engine platforms have done their due-diligence in researching and testing to ensure that all of the parts on their engines work as efficiently as possible in all operating conditions and environments. From starting up cold in sub-zero weather to hot-starting in desert-like conditions. Car companies will spend hundreds of thousands in testing and re-development of engine design just to get one more MPG out of it.

With all of that said, my opinion, not fact, is that slapping an aftermarket header might make it "feel" like it has more power, but this comes at a cost. The cost being that maybe now the power-band has been narrowed down in the RPM range, or just moved in the range to make it feel like a surge of power at say 3000 to 4200 RPM. This comes at a cost of a rough idle, no power at say 1200 to 2400 RPM where it's really needed to most, or a sharp drop-off in power at 4000 plus.

The manufacturer has tried to make the engine work in all conditions, and work well, and has developed all of the parts to work together and have longevity. Does this mean it's perfect? NO!!! But, it's the best COMPROMISE between getting the most power out of the engine and having it run smoothly and efficiently at the same time.

Now enter in Gibson. Great company I'm sure. But I don't think that they have spent even a fraction of the time Chrysler has to ensure that their header works perfectly on the Jeep 3.6 motor. Gibson is in business to make their headers fit as many vehicles as possible. And as we all know, every vehicle is different. Yes they are shiny and look badass, no argument there! But they made it look shiny and badass to sell them to you. If it really was meant to work better than a factory manifold, it would probably look very much like a factory manifold, and would probably be made out of cast iron.

Well, there's my $0.02 boys and girls. Jeep on!! [emoji106]
 
JeepJeep75 said:
I believe that Chrysler, just like all other car companies that develop new engine platforms have done their due-diligence in researching and testing to ensure that all of the parts on their engines work as efficiently as possible in all operating conditions and environments. From starting up cold in sub-zero weather to hot-starting in desert-like conditions. Car companies will spend hundreds of thousands in testing and re-development of engine design just to get one more MPG out of it.

With all of that said, my opinion, not fact, is that slapping an aftermarket header might make it "feel" like it has more power, but this comes at a cost. The cost being that maybe now the power-band has been narrowed down in the RPM range, or just moved in the range to make it feel like a surge of power at say 3000 to 4200 RPM. This comes at a cost of a rough idle, no power at say 1200 to 2400 RPM where it's really needed to most, or a sharp drop-off in power at 4000 plus.

The manufacturer has tried to make the engine work in all conditions, and work well, and has developed all of the parts to work together and have longevity. Does this mean it's perfect? NO!!! But, it's the best COMPROMISE between getting the most power out of the engine and having it run smoothly and efficiently at the same time.
Click to expand...

Having myself worked in both the aftermarket automotive industry and the dealership/manufacturer industry, this ^ statement so is well said. I have come to the same conclusion. Having been face to face multiple times talking to engineers, there is so much time spent by the manufacturer to get things as ideal as possible.
 
JeepJeep75 said:
I believe that Chrysler, just like all other car companies that develop new engine platforms have done their due-diligence in researching and testing to ensure that all of the parts on their engines work as efficiently as possible in all operating conditions and environments. From starting up cold in sub-zero weather to hot-starting in desert-like conditions. Car companies will spend hundreds of thousands in testing and re-development of engine design just to get one more MPG out of it.

With all of that said, my opinion, not fact, is that slapping an aftermarket header might make it "feel" like it has more power, but this comes at a cost. The cost being that maybe now the power-band has been narrowed down in the RPM range, or just moved in the range to make it feel like a surge of power at say 3000 to 4200 RPM. This comes at a cost of a rough idle, no power at say 1200 to 2400 RPM where it's really needed to most, or a sharp drop-off in power at 4000 plus.

The manufacturer has tried to make the engine work in all conditions, and work well, and has developed all of the parts to work together and have longevity. Does this mean it's perfect? NO!!! But, it's the best COMPROMISE between getting the most power out of the engine and having it run smoothly and efficiently at the same time.

Now enter in Gibson. Great company I'm sure. But I don't think that they have spent even a fraction of the time Chrysler has to ensure that their header works perfectly on the Jeep 3.6 motor. Gibson is in business to make their headers fit as many vehicles as possible. And as we all know, every vehicle is different. Yes they are shiny and look badass, no argument there! But they made it look shiny and badass to sell them to you. If it really was meant to work better than a factory manifold, it would probably look very much like a factory manifold, and would probably be made out of cast iron.

Well, there's my $0.02 boys and girls. Jeep on!! [emoji106]
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That was more like a buck fifty. ;)


parati ad omnia!
 
HoldMyBeer08JKU said:
That was more like a buck fifty. ;)


parati ad omnia!
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Yea, you're right about that. I hope you can get your headers to work for you. They do look awesome, even though everything around them looks terrible (Brackets, wires, covers). I've always been a fan of how headers look. I have a set of long-tube Doug Thorley's on my '73 Vette. Those are a HUGE improvement over the stock manifolds for sure on an old-school Chevy 350.
 
JeepJeep75 said:
I believe that Chrysler, just like all other car companies that develop new engine platforms have done their due-diligence in researching and testing to ensure that all of the parts on their engines work as efficiently as possible in all operating conditions and environments. From starting up cold in sub-zero weather to hot-starting in desert-like conditions. Car companies will spend hundreds of thousands in testing and re-development of engine design just to get one more MPG out of it.

With all of that said, my opinion, not fact, is that slapping an aftermarket header might make it "feel" like it has more power, but this comes at a cost. The cost being that maybe now the power-band has been narrowed down in the RPM range, or just moved in the range to make it feel like a surge of power at say 3000 to 4200 RPM. This comes at a cost of a rough idle, no power at say 1200 to 2400 RPM where it's really needed to most, or a sharp drop-off in power at 4000 plus.

The manufacturer has tried to make the engine work in all conditions, and work well, and has developed all of the parts to work together and have longevity. Does this mean it's perfect? NO!!! But, it's the best COMPROMISE between getting the most power out of the engine and having it run smoothly and efficiently at the same time.

Now enter in Gibson. Great company I'm sure. But I don't think that they have spent even a fraction of the time Chrysler has to ensure that their header works perfectly on the Jeep 3.6 motor. Gibson is in business to make their headers fit as many vehicles as possible. And as we all know, every vehicle is different. Yes they are shiny and look badass, no argument there! But they made it look shiny and badass to sell them to you. If it really was meant to work better than a factory manifold, it would probably look very much like a factory manifold, and would probably be made out of cast iron.

Well, there's my $0.02 boys and girls. Jeep on!! [emoji106]
Click to expand...

I'm hearing that all of Gibson's research, engineering, and dyno testing to improve performance is fabricated to sell me a "shine badass" looking part? I differ with you on that. I immediately noticed a difference in performance across the power band. It accelerates better, it cruises at 70mph without opening the accelerator all the way (From 3200-3500 down to 2500-2800 rpm). I know, and this is my opinion, if performance parts did improve performance no one would buy them including me. I'm not interested in looks as you so insinuated, but performance. If I had a 3.6l motor I would be happy with that, but I don't. I have a 3.8l cast steel block that is much heavier and less powerful than the aluminum 3.6L that produces much more power. You mentioned Chrysler compromises, yes they do. To meet EPA standards which they compromise performance for fuel efficiency and less pollutants with restrictive fuel flow, exhaust flow, air flow, with computers to detune and maintain fuel efficiency. As you remove the aforementioned restrictions you get better performance! Ever see a race car with factory products on the motor? No because the factory "stock parts" are not designed for performance, rather fuel efficiency.

My buck fifty.
 
WJCO said:
Auto parts store carry an exhaust sealant, it's like a paste. It may even be made by Permatex, I can't remember. If you keep trying and can't get that connection sealed, you can put some of that stuff on both pieces, then bolt it back and see if you have any luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's exactly what Gibson said to do. Shot I didn't need to call them! Hahaha!


parati ad omnia!
 
HoldMyBeer08JKU said:
I'm hearing that all of Gibson's research, engineering, and dyno testing to improve performance is fabricated to sell me a "shine badass" looking part? I differ with you on that. I immediately noticed a difference in performance across the power band. It accelerates better, it cruises at 70mph without opening the accelerator all the way (From 3200-3500 down to 2500-2800 rpm). I know, and this is my opinion, if performance parts did improve performance no one would buy them including me. I'm not interested in looks as you so insinuated, but performance. If I had a 3.6l motor I would be happy with that, but I don't. I have a 3.8l cast steel block that is much heavier and less powerful than the aluminum 3.6L that produces much more power. You mentioned Chrysler compromises, yes they do. To meet EPA standards which they compromise performance for fuel efficiency and less pollutants with restrictive fuel flow, exhaust flow, air flow, with computers to detune and maintain fuel efficiency. As you remove the aforementioned restrictions you get better performance! Ever see a race car with factory products on the motor? No because the factory "stock parts" are not designed for performance, rather fuel efficiency.

My buck fifty.
Click to expand...

Cool man, not arguing anything you have said. But you have been pointing out that you are having difficulties in getting things to seal. Using some sort of paste to get a good deal is only a bandaid. There might also be ongoing heat issues as others have mentioned. Using insulating wrap to keep the spark plug wires from melting is another bandaid that will not last. Also mentioned is rough idling. My belief and opinion, not fact, is that there is very, very little improvement to be gained for giving up a good sealing, smooth running engine. I love headers, I really, really do. I just feel that they aren't worth the headache and hassle on the 3.8 or the 3.6 jeep motors. You mentioned a race car with "stock parts" on it, well how long do those race car parts last without constant maintenance and attention? Not nearly as long as stock parts on a stock motor do. Putting race car parts on a jeep means you will FOREVER be messing with those parts getting them to work for longevity. I admire your perseverance with the project you have and I really hope it works out for you. It's my opinion that these headers will be a constant pain in your ass though.
 
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