That's my understanding of it. But I'm also thinking that if the internals such as Pistons,rod and main bearings aren't designed for the use of such a thing then my guess it's no longer a matter of "if", but "when" it will detonate and ultimately cost you even more money to fix rather than doing things the right way the first time and just saving for a swap.
New blower option coming
- Thread starter SmokinV10
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That's my understanding of it. But I'm also thinking that if the internals such as Pistons,rod and main bearings aren't designed for the use of such a thing then my guess it's no longer a matter of "if", but "when" it will detonate and ultimately cost you even more money to fix rather than doing things the right way the first time and just saving for a swap.
bo9roadking
New member
Don't know why you are taking my SC purchase so personal. I added my comments to this thread to help provide information to anyone that is considering a SC. Since I own a SC, I think I might have some experience about it and as mentioned in a previous post, more and more manufacturers are using forced induction on their motors. If the 3.6 was blowing up after a SC install, I think RIPP, Magnuson, Sprintex, and Edelbrock would stay out of that market and companies like Hennessey Performance wouldn't put their name/reputation on the line installing Magnuson SC's on the Jeep Wrangler. Obviously, there is a market case to be made, so they must be selling them and the engines are not blowing up or we would be hearing about it.
Pushing the engine to its limits is debatable because nobody has determined what that limit is. Adding boost does introduce more stress on the engine, I'll give you that, but blowing the engine is not likely at mild boost. I'm running 6 psi boost which Magnuson warrants for 3 years. There are people running 10 psi boost with RIPP and haven't blown their 3.6. Prodigy Performance is running 8-10 psi with their turbos on the JK and claim that you can go higher. As I mentioned before, there is about a 3 psi change driving from the mountains to sea level, but nobody seems to be worried about blowing their engine when they drive from Colorado to the Gulf Coast.
My JKU is over 3 years old already, so I'm not concerned about my warranty. I think an engine swap also voids the warranty, since there isn't an engine to warrant.
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So why are YOU taking his response so personal. We all have opinions of the SC concept, and unfortunately many people here whole heartedly feel it's a waste of time and money, hard on an already weak engine and they don't produce the power where it's needed. Sorry you aren't getting lied to with responses you want to hear, welcome to the real world.
JAGS
Hooked
I seriously doubt Panda or anyone else is taking your comments or others personal. If I had to bet, they probably don't care what you did. But just as you, they "added comments to this thread." Nothing about Jeep parts is personal.
The point you make about companies not doing something because it might void a factory warranty is just ridiculous. EVERY SINGLE aftermarket part we put on our Jeep has the potential to void the warranty or damage the jeep. These companies are in the business of making money. And if people buy a product, you'll continue to see it made. Regardless of what it may or may not do to the engine (in the case of SC/Blower/CIA). They don't care as they are not in the factory engine salvation business.
piginajeep
The Original Smartass
Yup, the internals went on mine. I guess that doesn't count as pushing it to the limits.
Panda
New member
I surely wasn't taking your comments personal, your the one who quoted me, I was simply stating my opinion so my friends on this forum can see both sides of the debate, I think it's a huge risk for little gain and I wouldn't recommend it to my friends, I have more experience building hot rods than jeeps and I know how mods can shorten engine life, and I guarantee you these companies who sell this stuff care more about getting your $ than they do about the life of your engine
LOL, gotta say, coming from a lot of LT1, LS1, and Vette forums from way back and over the years, it is funny as hell seeing so many Jeep people on ALL the Jeep forums I checked out freaking out about engine mods and warranties not to mention folks having their mind blown when someone says they go over 3500 RPM and how it is bad for for the engine, like Jeep making the redline so high was just a lie.
I would just take a look at the Charger and Challenger guys running the 3.6's on the car forums and see how many are doing what to it and how many are banging it off the rev limiters several times a day or running boost or nitrous, big bores, strokers, or even poked and stroked with forced induction or nitrous with no problems.
Now I know I'm new, unveted, unkown, untrusted, and have no history of Jeep experience and advice giving, but drag racing used to be my thing with doing any mod to make it faster on any car, street bike, dirt bike, quad, or snowmobile. A small supercharger is not going to hurt the 3.6. Is it going to put power where it needs to be on the trails or crawling? No, not really, but big hill climbs, sand, and driving everyday on the road? Hell yes!!!
The irony that makes me laugh so hard is folks with $8000 to $12000 in tires, lifts, and axles going out snapping, smashing, bashing, and breaking u joints, axles, and gearing all day worry about a $200 to $800 piston, piston rod, bearing, or crank job. Fear of the great unknown I guess. I worry about all the suspension stuff no one gives a second thought to here. Could care less about engine problems, cause I know one and not the other.
To the original poster from a former drag racing gear head: Put it on, enjoy your sweet sweet boost, watch your A/F ratios for a while to make sure you have a good tune, and try to watch your knock sensors or timing to see if it has been retarded enough along the full map for daily driving. Any knocks or even seeing timing being pulled from normal means too advanced, too lean, or both. I'd recomend a real tune vs a generic program to dump in it. After a few weeks of daily driving a follow up tone to make sure the fuel trims are happy.
I would just take a look at the Charger and Challenger guys running the 3.6's on the car forums and see how many are doing what to it and how many are banging it off the rev limiters several times a day or running boost or nitrous, big bores, strokers, or even poked and stroked with forced induction or nitrous with no problems.
Now I know I'm new, unveted, unkown, untrusted, and have no history of Jeep experience and advice giving, but drag racing used to be my thing with doing any mod to make it faster on any car, street bike, dirt bike, quad, or snowmobile. A small supercharger is not going to hurt the 3.6. Is it going to put power where it needs to be on the trails or crawling? No, not really, but big hill climbs, sand, and driving everyday on the road? Hell yes!!!
The irony that makes me laugh so hard is folks with $8000 to $12000 in tires, lifts, and axles going out snapping, smashing, bashing, and breaking u joints, axles, and gearing all day worry about a $200 to $800 piston, piston rod, bearing, or crank job. Fear of the great unknown I guess. I worry about all the suspension stuff no one gives a second thought to here. Could care less about engine problems, cause I know one and not the other.
To the original poster from a former drag racing gear head: Put it on, enjoy your sweet sweet boost, watch your A/F ratios for a while to make sure you have a good tune, and try to watch your knock sensors or timing to see if it has been retarded enough along the full map for daily driving. Any knocks or even seeing timing being pulled from normal means too advanced, too lean, or both. I'd recomend a real tune vs a generic program to dump in it. After a few weeks of daily driving a follow up tone to make sure the fuel trims are happy.
Irish JK
Caught the Bug
Now that was funny. I have met John and he is a very nice guy and they make some great power performance packages, but they do have quite a soft underbelly when it comes to their name and reputation.
Probably just a bad example to use.
JAGS
Hooked
I may be wrong here, but I think most all of us worry about the basic things of lift and suspension breaking. For me though, I can carry spares/fixes for many of those issues and the folks I wheel with have enough knowledge to help get me running should it be necessary.
While I'm no gear head by any stretch of the imagination, I'm going to go out on a limb and say a blown engine component would be a much harder fix out in the middle of know where. And also likely not many folks carry the parts and tools necessary to fix this type of break if something does go wrong.
bo9roadking
New member
I was trying to say that their company installs the Magnuson SC on Wranglers and you can find it on their website. If it was such a bad thing, I don't think they would be doing it.
bo9roadking
New member
I agree with you. I think my only mention of warranty was Magnuson's warranty on their SC was 3 years, not that they cover or provide a manufacturer's warranty. I don't care about my engine warranty because it is already over 3 years old. It has some warranty left, but that is gone now that the SC is on it.
piginajeep
The Original Smartass
I'm not hard on my motor for 14 second runs on the track, I'm hard on it for hours on end in the desert. The two are not the same.
My dad drag races, he's blown up plenty of motors, little easier to get a tow back to the pits than when your out in the desert.
Not to mention not many guys can rebuild a motor. Guess you forgot to add the price of the rebuild in the $800 estimate. Not to mention when mine went it took the block out as well.
bo9roadking
New member
My comments weren't trying to be an attack or taken as such. Unfortunately, forums don't provide good queues with voice tone and body language to help imply/infer meaning/intent.
I was only trying to add my experience with a twin screw SC that Magnuson and now Edelbrock are using. I've heard of people blowing engines, but I've never seen or heard of a 3.6 that has blown from mild forced induction.
I understand people want more power and it probably isn't the best engine for a heavy JK, but the 3.6 is not under powered for a stock JK. Also, with thousands of 3.6 engines out there running for the last 3+ years, other than the head replacement issue on the early engines, I've only heard of a handful of bad ones. If the 3.6 was that bad, the aftermarket would never invest research money on it and they would not sell forced induction for it. Even Chrysler had plans on putting a turbo on it at one point.
People say a SC doesn't provide the low end torque, so a swap is the only option. If the SC was a RIPP, I'd agree. A twin screw works differently and provides boost from almost idle. Does it provide as much low end torque as a swap, no. Does it cost as much as a swap, no. It is a compromise. However, it does provide more torque than the stock 3.6 at considerably less cost in time and money. The boost curve is fairly linear, so it doesn't come on suddenly to cause traction issues.
I hear about SC heat issues. There are heat issues with some swaps and some SC's. However, a mildly boosted twin screw doesn't need an intercooler because it doesn't produce as much heat as turbos and centrifugal SC's do. In fact, Sprintex didn't even offer an intercooler for their SC until recently and neither did the Prodigy Performance's turbos until they started pushing more boost. The intercooler helps those people that are trying to produce higher boost levels to keep the engine from having pre-ignition issues. The only heat issue that I was expecting with my install hasn't yet materialized. I'm expecting that the auto transmission might have an issue now that the SC intercooler is mounted in front of the tranny cooler. I haven't seen an issue yet, but I'm watching for it.
I may discover that the SC is a waste of time and money, but it is my money and my JKU. I have "wasted" money on many mods that have been upgraded/replaced at some point, so when/if the time comes that I remove the SC or do a swap, I'll chalk that up to another mod that I wasted money on. I don't really consider it a waste though. It is more of an expensive lesson learned. Each mod provides new information and new experiences. It isn't the first mod that I may have to replace and it won't be the last.
Regarding this entire thread, get what floats your boat within your budget. For me, the twin screw is a different animal and is an option that allows for more power from almost idle, at minimal cost, and I can continue getting my maintenance performed with my local mechanic that knows my 3.6. I don't care if anyone buys one or decides on a swap or sticks with their 3.6. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just sharing my experience with it.
I was only trying to add my experience with a twin screw SC that Magnuson and now Edelbrock are using. I've heard of people blowing engines, but I've never seen or heard of a 3.6 that has blown from mild forced induction.
I understand people want more power and it probably isn't the best engine for a heavy JK, but the 3.6 is not under powered for a stock JK. Also, with thousands of 3.6 engines out there running for the last 3+ years, other than the head replacement issue on the early engines, I've only heard of a handful of bad ones. If the 3.6 was that bad, the aftermarket would never invest research money on it and they would not sell forced induction for it. Even Chrysler had plans on putting a turbo on it at one point.
People say a SC doesn't provide the low end torque, so a swap is the only option. If the SC was a RIPP, I'd agree. A twin screw works differently and provides boost from almost idle. Does it provide as much low end torque as a swap, no. Does it cost as much as a swap, no. It is a compromise. However, it does provide more torque than the stock 3.6 at considerably less cost in time and money. The boost curve is fairly linear, so it doesn't come on suddenly to cause traction issues.
I hear about SC heat issues. There are heat issues with some swaps and some SC's. However, a mildly boosted twin screw doesn't need an intercooler because it doesn't produce as much heat as turbos and centrifugal SC's do. In fact, Sprintex didn't even offer an intercooler for their SC until recently and neither did the Prodigy Performance's turbos until they started pushing more boost. The intercooler helps those people that are trying to produce higher boost levels to keep the engine from having pre-ignition issues. The only heat issue that I was expecting with my install hasn't yet materialized. I'm expecting that the auto transmission might have an issue now that the SC intercooler is mounted in front of the tranny cooler. I haven't seen an issue yet, but I'm watching for it.
I may discover that the SC is a waste of time and money, but it is my money and my JKU. I have "wasted" money on many mods that have been upgraded/replaced at some point, so when/if the time comes that I remove the SC or do a swap, I'll chalk that up to another mod that I wasted money on. I don't really consider it a waste though. It is more of an expensive lesson learned. Each mod provides new information and new experiences. It isn't the first mod that I may have to replace and it won't be the last.
Regarding this entire thread, get what floats your boat within your budget. For me, the twin screw is a different animal and is an option that allows for more power from almost idle, at minimal cost, and I can continue getting my maintenance performed with my local mechanic that knows my 3.6. I don't care if anyone buys one or decides on a swap or sticks with their 3.6. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just sharing my experience with it.
You don't carry a spare?! Say it isn't so, lol
In my opinion, there is no such thing as MILD when it comes to getting something like this that may add a little shot in the shorts. It's no different than going out and buying a new Vette, you're going to ALWAYS want to see what it'll do and test its limits, ("Hold my beer and watch this").
JK_Dave
Caught the Bug
Since you mentioned it, how popular is the stroked 3.6 with the car crowd? I almost never hear about it from the Jeep crowd (forums, magazines, etc) and I'm curious why? If you could stroke the 3.6 to a 3.9 and keep it N/A you might be able to squeeze 325-350 out of it while beefing up the internals and making it more reliable. A good engine builder could probably do this for the same ballpark as a S/C would run so I wonder why it's not a more popular modification.
I'll have to see if I can dig up a recent Jeep mag I got where they had a project Wrangler that they stroked. I think it was the 3.8 but I can't remember now.
Edit: Here's the article - http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/1411-building-a-stroked-jeep-38l-v6-jk-bumping/
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AAANNNNDDDDD you make my point for me, thanks. Yes, you are not balls to the wall when wheeling unless baja or pre running. Good! Million times less likely to hurt anything. A lot less likely something is just going to go POP and end your engine all at once making it metal soup. And since you are not balls to the wall most likely you have just spun a bearing, bent a rod, crushed some ring lands, tweaked a valve, or put a hole in a piston. All simple, cheap, easy fixes under $1k after you get the parts. Easy to pick up on and notice. Easy to limp back from. Engines just don't gernade because you've done a mod. And all of the above can happen with a stock engine too.
Beer in mind too, the SOLO guys are out all day for hours at a time running heats as they carry on. Even some circle track guys. I'm sure they would get a good chuckle at the comment of building or modding an engine makes it not reliable for extended hard use. Won't even bring up IROC.
Not sure. Until recent there weren't too many hot V6 setups you could get. That came a few years after I bounced out of the scene. Got lucky too many times for way too long so hung it up. I'm sure any MOPAR magazine focused on high end performance will have tried a bunch of he new stuff over the last 5 or 6 years. Something the likes of GM High Tech magazine but pentastar based would for sure.
I think it is just way more efficient to do FI then poke and stroke these days. Especially on a smaller engine. Plus you an go up or down depending on your needs as well and one setup fits much more then very engine specific. I'm sure FI is just fine since all the big names sold or still sell FI vehicles. The Thuderbird, Super Coupe, Laser, F-150, Eclipse, Daytona, Supra, Sonata, new Dart 1.5L Turbo, and a crap tons more over the years and still today.
Hah, just thinking of all the Darts blowing up and needing full engine rebuilds because they are pushing small boost levels from the factory while covered under warranty.
piginajeep
The Original Smartass
I don't drive my jeep balls to the wall uh? How the hell did it blow up then ? From driving it at the mall?