Can I improve the ride quality anymore?

[13jkjunky]

I have a 2021 JTR. It has a Metalcloak 3.5” GC lift, 37” c rated bfg ko2’s, bilstein 5100 shocks, MC rear track bar relocation, MC tie rod and drag link with steering stabilizer relocation kit, dynatrac ball joints. I’m running 6 degrees of caster. Originally had MC Rocksport red shocks and swapped to the 5100’s as I felt the rocksports were a bit too soft and only added to the issues.

My complaint is that even with all this the jeep still doesn’t drive the way I wish it would. Maybe I’m expecting too much and maybe it’s “just a jeep”. It doesn’t drive terrible but when hitting bumps I get a pretty good amount of bump steer and there’s still 1-2” of play in the steering wheel when moving side to side where nothing really happens, a dead spot so to speak.

I know it’s a jeep but I have to imagine it could drive better than this. I let my wife drive it for the first time this evening on a decently long trip. Overall she didn’t have much to complain about but when she’d see a bump coming she’d put 2 hands on the wheel to hold on and in her words she felt “when we hit a bump she was afraid of it throwing the jeep to the side of the road”. To be clear, it doesn’t throw the jeep, but it does throw the steering wheel (bump steer) a good bit.

Any ideas or recommendations?

 

[bobfriesenhahn]

Can you post a photo of the front suspension (from the front) so we can see how well things are aligned?

Have you tested the steering while parked, with someone inside making small left/right steering inputs and someone outside seeing what is (or is not) moving among the front suspension/steering components?

 

[13jkjunky]

Can you post a photo of the front suspension (from the front) so we can see how well things are aligned?

Have you tested the steering while parked, with someone inside making small left/right steering inputs and someone outside seeing what is (or is not) moving among the front suspension/steering components?

Yes I have done that. Nothing is noticeably loose. Everything is new. Not even 1k miles on the lift, steering etc.

I’m thinking of trying the drag link flip, seems many people report good luck with it above 3” lift instead of the typically recommended 4.5. Only reservation is that I can’t go back once I drill the knuckle. Unless I can flip the sleeve to the stock under mount location I don’t see why not actually since it will be a straight drilled 7/8 hole and not tapered anymore since the sleeve is the taper.

 

[bobfriesenhahn]

Yes I have done that. Nothing is noticeably loose. Everything is new. Not even 1k miles on the lift, steering etc.

I’m thinking of trying the drag link flip, seems many people report good luck with it above 3” lift instead of the typically recommended 4.5. Only reservation is that I can’t go back once I drill the knuckle. Unless I can flip the sleeve to the stock under mount location I don’t see why not actually since it will be a straight drilled 7/8 hole and not tapered anymore since the sleeve is the taper.

You definitely have a geometry issue with the drag link since things are not horizontally aligned. That would surely cause bump steer. But you also mentioned a "dead spot" in the steering, which seems like something else.

 

[jeeeep]

with 3.5" lift, drag link flip and track bar relocation bracket to keep them parallel, look at Syngery

may be the photo but the SS also appears to be at a pretty steep angle.

both would contribute to a dead spot feeling, have you cycled your steering to make sure the SS is centered properly?

 

[wayoflife]

You definitely have a geometry issue with the drag link since things are not horizontally aligned. That would surely cause bump steer. But you also mentioned a "dead spot" in the steering, which seems like something else.

Not sure how you can tell that from those photos. Unless some kind of track bar relocation bracket was installed without addressing the drag link as well (and I can't see anything like that) all should be fine with the geometry.

 

[wayoflife]

My complaint is that even with all this the jeep still doesn’t drive the way I wish it would. Maybe I’m expecting too much and maybe it’s “just a jeep”. It doesn’t drive terrible but when hitting bumps I get a pretty good amount of bump steer and there’s still 1-2” of play in the steering wheel when moving side to side where nothing really happens, a dead spot so to speak.

It's not just a "Jeep thing" but rather, a "dead spot" in the steering wheel is what you feel with ANY vehicle with a solid front axle that uses a steering box, drag link and tie rod to steer it. I know you don't want to hear this but the steering you're used to is what you last felt on whatever IFS rack and pinion steering car you had before.

As far as bump steer goes. Could you elaborate what exactly you think that is? What exactly happens when you hit a bump?

 

[13jkjunky]

You definitely have a geometry issue with the drag link since things are not horizontally aligned. That would surely cause bump steer. But you also mentioned a "dead spot" in the steering, which seems like something else.

The drag link and track bar are at the same angle. They’re not horizontal as none would be after a lift. There’s play in the wheel about 1” left to right and you can feel this with the engine off. I know jeeps have some play, not sure what’s normal.

 

[13jkjunky]

It's not just a "Jeep thing" but rather, a "dead spot" in the steering wheel is what you feel with ANY vehicle with a solid front axle that uses a steering box, drag link and tie rod to steer it. I know you don't want to hear this but the steering you're used to is what you last felt on whatever IFS rack and pinion steering car you had before.

As far as bump steer goes. Could you elaborate what exactly you think that is? What exactly happens when you hit a bump?

I’m aware that solid axles do have different characteristics. Just not experienced enough with different vehicles to know if this is normal or excessive. We have some solid axle trucks at work (super duty ford) that don’t seem to have as much play as my jeep. The play is the same whether the jeep is parked and engine off or driving. The bump steer I’m referring to is when driving down the road, could be 55 or 70 mph, and you hit certain bumps, the steering wheel will move left or right just one time. Other times it will kind of move/shake back and forth. Maybe it’s more of a “wobble”? It doesn’t happen on all bumps, but some. I imagine it depends on how much the bump forces the suspension to cycle and if the bump is a pothole affecting 1 tire independently or say a bridge joint which hits both tires at the same time.

I’ve attached some videos of the issues. The driving videos the bump steer/shake while driving on the highway. It’s hard to see sometimes it’s worse and more apparent.
The other video is sitting at a red light moving the wheel back and forth showing the free play, this is the same amount i get with the vehicle off and parked.

 

[13jkjunky]

with 3.5" lift, drag link flip and track bar relocation bracket to keep them parallel, look at Syngery

may be the photo but the SS also appears to be at a pretty steep angle.

both would contribute to a dead spot feeling, have you cycled your steering to make sure the SS is centered properly?

I’m utilizing the Metalcloak steering stabilizer relocation since I also have their tie rod and the stabilizer needed to be relocated after installing a new tie rod. I installed the relocation and SS per the MC instructions which have you turn the steering all the way driver and fully extend the SS and install it on the tie rod.

 

[wayoflife]

Okay, bump steer would literally be what it sounds like, you hit a bump and your steering is affected by it. That would be a ONE time movement and it is caused by steering geometry being off (track bar not being parallel to the drag link) but you can get a similar sensation when it's sitting at too steep of an angle - something you would have with a tall lift and no correction. This could be part of your problem or what you're feeling. However, what I'm seeing in your video looks more like a wobble in the steering wheel and that could be more of a result of the aftermarket components you have installed.

So, my question to you is, did you have any of what you're feeling now back when your Jeep was still stock?

 

[13jkjunky]

Okay, bump steer would literally be what it sounds like, you hit a bump and your steering is affected by it. That would be a ONE time movement and it is caused by steering geometry being off (track bar not being parallel to the drag link) but you can get a similar sensation when it's sitting at too steep of an angle - something you would have with a tall lift and no correction. This could be part of your problem or what you're feeling. However, what I'm seeing in your video looks more like a wobble in the steering wheel and that could be more of a result of the aftermarket components you have installed.

So, my question to you is, did you have any of what you're feeling now back when your Jeep was still stock?

I bought the jeep with a 2.5” spacer lift on it so I don’t have a “stock” reference. But regardless I do not remember it being like this. I can’t say for certain that it didn’t have any, but if it did it wasn’t this obvious/bad. I do believe it has gotten worse if it did have it before.

As for the steering wheel play, does that look “normal” for a jeep? I do have the steel steering box not aluminum.

 

[wayoflife]

I bought the jeep with a 2.5” spacer lift on it so I don’t have a “stock” reference. But regardless I do not remember it being like this. I can’t say for certain that it didn’t have any, but if it did it wasn’t this obvious/bad. I do believe it has gotten worse if it did have it before.

Just as a starter, I would highly recommend you get rid of the steering stabilizer you currently have installed and reinstall your stock one. If you don't have one, install one made by Rancho. The RS7MT is what I would use but it is pressurized and so it can cause a bit of a push to one side but it works the best. Otherwise, the 5000 is passive and it works well too. I can almost guarantee you that the wobble you feel will go away with just this alone.

As far as what you feel is a dead spot goes, that is totally normal and again, could be a bit more amplified with the aftermarket components you installed.

 

[13jkjunky]

Just as a starter, I would highly recommend you get rid of the steering stabilizer you currently have installed and reinstall your stock one. If you don't have one, install one made by Rancho. The RS7MT is what I would use but it is pressurized and so it can cause a bit of a push to one side but it works the best. Otherwise, the 5000 is passive and it works well too. I can almost guarantee you that the wobble you feel will go away with just this alone.

As far as what you feel is a dead spot goes, that is totally normal and again, could be a bit more amplified with your aftermarket components.

The stabilizer was only installed very recently. It feels similar to the original, it’s just a Metalcloak one. If I recall correctly, it was the same before and after. But I could swap the original back on. It will be at the same angle as that’s how it mounts.

 

[wayoflife]

The stabilizer was only installed very recently. It feels similar to the original, it’s just a Metalcloak one. If I recall correctly, it was the same before and after. But I could swap the original back on. It will be at the same angle as that’s how it mounts.

The angle of it shouldn't make enough of a difference to cause a wobble. The factory steering stabilizer is good when working but they do tend to wear out faster than I would prefer. And technically speaking, you really shouldn't need a stabilizer at all if everything is setup correctly but for some reason, the electric steering pump does seem to require one. With all that said and from what I'm seeing, I would still bet that installing a Rancho steering stabilizer alone will do a lot for you or at least, in regards to helping to control that wobble you're feeling.

As far as everything else goes, I know that MC uses their own joints on everything and I can't say that I personally am a fan of them. Not say they are for sure amplifying what you're feeling but it wouldn't surprise me especially since you seem to think that a lot of what your feeling happened after installing all of it.

 

[13jkjunky]

The angle of it shouldn't make enough of a difference to cause a wobble. The factory steering stabilizer is good when working but they do tend to wear out faster than I would prefer. And technically speaking, you really shouldn't need a stabilizer at all if everything is setup correctly but for some reason, the electric steering pump does seem to require one. With all that said and from what I'm seeing, I would still bet that installing a Rancho steering stabilizer alone will do a lot for you or at least, in regards to helping to control that wobble you're feeling.

As far as everything else goes, I know that MC uses their own joints on everything and I can't say that I personally am a fan of them. Not say they are for sure amplifying what you're feeling but it wouldn't surprise me especially since you seem to think that a lot of what your feeling happened after installing all of it.

I will try the ranch rs7 stabilizer and see what that does. I do have the stock one but it also has 50k on it so probably would be needing replacement sooner than later anyway. Do you think a drag link flip would help at all? Seems to be directly recommended for bump steer.

 

[wayoflife]

I will try the ranch rs7 stabilizer and see what that does. I do have the stock one but it also has 50k on it so probably would be needing replacement sooner than later anyway. Do you think a drag link flip would help at all? Seems to be directly recommended for bump steer.

What I think is that you should try one thing at a time. That way, you'll know what worked and didn't. Start with the Rancho stabilizer.

A track bar relocation AND drag link flip will correct steering geometry on a Jeep with a tall lift and it can help to mitigate things like bump steer but I would NOT recommend you do this first.

 

[13jkjunky]

What I think is that you should try one thing at a time. That way, you'll know what worked and didn't. Start with the Rancho stabilizer.

A track bar relocation AND drag link flip will correct steering geometry on a Jeep with a tall lift and it can help to mitigate things like bump steer but I would NOT recommend you do this first.

Yeah I plan to do the stabilizer first and see from there. I’m only at 3.5” of lift so not crazy tall but that’s also the advertised lift height and I can’t say whether or not I gained more than that. Either way It seems that I’m tall enough to consider a flip, but not at the height where it would be an absolute, no question, requirement. Yes I’m aware the flip also requires a track bar relocation bracket, I just omitted that in my response.

If the stabilizer doesn’t change the issue, what would be your next step(s)?

 

[wayoflife]

Yeah I plan to do the stabilizer first and see from there. I’m only at 3.5” of lift so not crazy tall but that’s also the advertised lift height and I can’t say whether or not I gained more than that. Either way It seems that I’m tall enough to consider a flip, but not at the height where it would be an absolute, no question, requirement. Yes I’m aware the flip also requires a track bar relocation bracket, I just omitted that in my response.

If the stabilizer doesn’t change the issue, what would be your next step(s)?

No lift yields what is advertised and most tend to be a lot taller. That said and looking at your pics, I would agree that your Jeep isn't sitting tall enough to "require" a steering correction.

Start with the stabilizer. I can almost guarantee you that alone will help mitigate the wobble you're feeling. I see this ALL THE TIME. We can talk about next steps IF it's actually needed.

 

[13jkjunky]

No lift yields what is advertised and most tend to be a lot taller. That said and looking at your pics, I would agree that your Jeep isn't sitting tall enough to "require" a steering correction.

Start with the stabilizer. I can almost guarantee you that alone will help mitigate the wobble you're feeling. I see this ALL THE TIME. We can talk about next steps IF it's actually needed.

Thank you for the help and insight Eddie!