Another Steering Gearbox Question

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OldButStillJeeping

New member
My 05' TJ started doing the 45 mph death wobble. Spin balancing the tires didn't stop the wobble like it has before.
I rebuilt the front end a couple years ago and replaced all the rod ends and ball joints in the C's. Replaced the unit bearings and such and such.
All new except for the drag link rod end at the pitman. I had zero wobble until last week.
So the other day I replace the drag link rod end at the pitman, and noticed about 1 inch of play in the pitman arm while doing so. It was an Ah! HA!! moment.
So, I searched the forums and service manual and adjusted the play on the top if the steering gearbox. There is no binding and no play in the pitman now.
So, now the pitman play is reduced, or zero. The death wobble isn't happening now but I can tell that it sure wants to wobble away at about 45 mph.
And now this problem... There is nearly 1/4 turn of play in the steering wheel. Whereas before there was zero or negligible play in the steering wheel.
So, my question is;
At what time do you know that the steering box is toast?
I've followed the steering wheel play down the column and the play is in the steering box, not the column.
My Jeep specs are 2005 TJ, 4.0, 4" lift, Currie and Rokmen adj arms, RCV axle shafts, factory unit bearing hubs, 33" BFG KM2's on steel 8" wide x 15" HTC wheels.
Thanks for your time.
 
If your going to swap out your steering box go to the earlier Saginaw box pre 2003....98-02 box get one from PSC....a big bore set up for Hyd assist so you can swap over in the future when you want.... swap is not much trouble at all.

Sit in front of your jeep and have some one turn the wheel back and forth and you will see where the play is....swap rear tires to front and see if that helps .
 
deantac said:
If your going to swap out your steering box go to the earlier Saginaw box pre 2003....98-02 box get one from PSC....a big bore set up for Hyd assist so you can swap over in the future when you want.... swap is not much trouble at all.

Sit in front of your jeep and have some one turn the wheel back and forth and you will see where the play is....swap rear tires to front and see if that helps .
Click to expand...

Good info, thank you.
It's possible my recently balanced tires weren't balanced well at all. I'll rotate them myself and see what's up.
I'm probably going to go with a PSC steering box, but spending $900 is doable but hard to swallow on a 14 year old Jeep. I'll never get that money back when I sell my TJ. But it is all lost money anyway... it's the price of this hobby.
 
OldButStillJeeping said:
Good info, thank you.
It's possible my recently balanced tires weren't balanced well at all. I'll rotate them myself and see what's up.
I'm probably going to go with a PSC steering box, but spending $900 is doable but hard to swallow on a 14 year old Jeep. I'll never get that money back when I sell my TJ. But it is all lost money anyway... it's the price of this hobby.
Click to expand...

Depending on your tires and the shop that did them, you might need to balance them a couple of times to get right. I’ve had to back three times to get it right before I had DT do mine. DT can usually get it right the first time or at most the second.


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
Yep. Been buying from Discount (AKA Americas) Tire for awhile. I get the spin balance / tire replacement warranty everytime I get tires. So this latest spin bal was free to me. That's why I think they may have botched it or not been too accurate. Although I've never had an issue with them.
 
OldButStillJeeping said:
Yep. Been buying from Discount (AKA Americas) Tire for awhile. I get the spin balance / tire replacement warranty everytime I get tires. So this latest spin bal was free to me. That's why I think they may have botched it or not been too accurate. Although I've never had an issue with them.
Click to expand...

The bigger the tire, the harder it is. Just keep taking it back until it’s right


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
I took it to a local shop I trust 100 %. The guy said it was the worst spin balanced tires he had ever encountered. He rebalanced them, with weights on inside and outside of wheel.
No shimmy, smooth as glass now.
Time is money to me. DT is 30 min away, local shop is 5 min. Cost me $60. Well worth it.
Ordered a PSC steering gear as well.
 
OldButStillJeeping said:
I took it to a local shop I trust 100 %. The guy said it was the worst spin balanced tires he had ever encountered. He rebalanced them, with weights on inside and outside of wheel.
No shimmy, smooth as glass now.
Time is money to me. DT is 30 min away, local shop is 5 min. Cost me $60. Well worth it.
Ordered a PSC steering gear as well.
Click to expand...

Glad you got it worked out. You’ll love the PSC big bore


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
The Big Green happy truck dropped off this bad boy from PSC yesterday. It's beautiful, man, beautiful. Lol
 

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The delivery truck was UPS Brown, but I'm color blind so its green to me.
Anyway, I started turning wrenches today to install my PSC steering gear with ram ports (for use later if need be). And... because I lowered my radiator 2", it doesn't clear the radiator! My radiator is lowered because I did a UCF tummy tuck without a motor mount lift... anyway...
So, I'm putting the radiator back to its stock location to clear the PSC, and cutting the crap out of my radiator shroud and/or lowering it to clear the fan.
I gotta say... though maybe nobody may read this... I love this Jeep Mod stuff. It keeps me from getting overweight and lethargic! Lol.
God Bless.
 
OldButStillJeeping said:
The delivery truck was UPS Brown, but I'm color blind so its green to me.
Anyway, I started turning wrenches today to install my PSC steering gear with ram ports (for use later if need be). And... because I lowered my radiator 2", it doesn't clear the radiator! My radiator is lowered because I did a UCF tummy tuck without a motor mount lift... anyway...
So, I'm putting the radiator back to its stock location to clear the PSC, and cutting the crap out of my radiator shroud and/or lowering it to clear the fan.
I gotta say... though maybe nobody may read this... I love this Jeep Mod stuff. It keeps me from getting overweight and lethargic! Lol.
God Bless.
Click to expand...

I'm reading it...:beer:
 
deantac said:
I'm reading it...:beer:
Click to expand...

Thanks!
I found that i can make it work by lowering the radiator 1 1/4", and the shroud 3/4".
I'm using power steering hoses for an earlier model TJ to plumb the PSC. Installed those yesterday with minor modifications needed .
I found it interesting that there were no instructions of any kind in the PSC box. Not even the customary sticker. Had to call their tech line to verify which port was pressure, and which was return.
It's not brain surgery, so I guess they figured if your changing a steering gear you don't need information.
 
For the record, I ordered these hoses, and they work for PSC gear Installation. Got them on Amazon. These are for 97' thru 2002 TJ, whereas my Jeep is a 2005:
Edelmann 80291
Edelmann 80293

I did have to very slightly open up the bends at the gearbox end to get the input squared with the ports.
I do have a 1" body lift, but still had to hack away at the radiator bracket for clearance. Mostly because I have lowered my radiator for reasons previously mentioned.
If I ever install a RAM for my steering, I'll either have to install a motor mount lift, (which opens another can of worms due to tub to transmission clearance with the flat skid / tummy tuck), or have a radiator custom built. As it is now, the blocked RAM ports are fine, But installed RAM hoses would hit the radiator if I actually installed the RAM.
 

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Well, the PSC is in. Took the jeep for a drive. No leaks, no problems. Took just over 1qt of the 715 fluid, PSC recommends. No noticable difference driving, except the play is gone. And my confidence wheeling is way up.
 
Final Outcome

So, this us what I learned. All this with the help of folks on this forum, and a good deal of internet search, phone calls, and frustration. I submit the following:

1>The later year TJs used a Mecedes steering gear box. It's expensive for a rebuilt and most rebuilds only have the seals changed. The casting will need serious work to actually achieve a like new function. New ones (NOS) are impossible to find and from what I found they are about $1,500.
2> There are thusly, 3 "economical" options...
Option 1 is to get a steering gear (Saginaw) from an earlier model TJ and modify your frame which includes welding to accept the different bolt pattern. The advantage with this option is the units are readily available. The downside is you have to modify your frame mounts and this may decrease your Jeeps resale value with visible frame mods, and the unit won't be much better than the stock unit. Cost is +/- $600.
Option 2 is buy a unit from a company I'll not mention. That company uses a modified rebuilt unit and has terrible reviews as of this writing. Cost is +/- $600.
Option 3 is to purchase a unit from PSC. This unit is purpose built for the TJ and uses larger components for more durability. It also includes the option of Ram ports. Cost is +/- $1,000.
I went with option 3, PSC.
If you go with the. PSC unit, the following info is good to know:
The PSC unit is approximately 2.25 longer (towards the firewall) at the steering column end. On my 2005 TJ I have a 1" body lift and I had to shorten my steering column. It's easy to do. To do it, PSC has instructions available online.
I flushed and drained my steering pump during this install, and the required amount of fluid to refill was a quart plus a couple ounces. I bought 2 qts of the PSC recommended fluid (715), and have 3/4 a quart left over for topping it off if necessary.
You'll need new hoses. The houses for a pre 2002 jeep TJ work fine with very slight and easy to do modification. And as of this writing, are more complete and cheaper than what PSC offers. (?)
I ordered a new pitman arm (about $30) as getting the old one off the Mercedes unit was too much of a hassle. (And I own a 20 ton press).
Be prepared to cut a bit from the lower radiator brackets and shroud brackets for hose clearance.
I had to zip tie my hoses to the lower radiator hose to keep them from rubbing the steering column.
Thanks to all on this forum for the advise!
It all worked out well.
God Bless
 
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