Will Fiat's problems impact the Wrangler?

N

NerfHerder

New member
So Fiat has to cut their fleet emissions by roughly half to meet EPA restrictions, but "light trucks" make up something like 90% of their sales. They're also carrying something like $5 billion in debt.

So they have a huge problem with anything that will eat into their sales/brand loyalty, significant issues with capitalization, and the recalls on the Cherokees indicate they may have a quality problem (minor compared to Toyota still, but still an issue).

So how will all these things affect the JL?

I'm thinking they move away from any models like the Rubicon, MOAB, etc, and move toward a more limited Sport type, but designed to be much more modular. It would appeal to the soccer moms that want to drive a Jeep, get much better gas mileage, and cater to the modding community by making it much easier to add anything (including after-market engines).

I haven't seen much in the way of journalists reporting this, but to me it makes sense given the huge push they have made in the last couple of years to sell "pre-built" Jeeps. If they went with a weak entry level unit to meet EPA regs, and made almost everything else aftermarket, I think they could get around some of their issues.
 
I have a Cherokee and it hasn't been recalled. True, some early models have had transmission problems. The Cherokee is the top seller for FCA.
 
Moochie said:
I have a Cherokee and it hasn't been recalled. True, some early models have had transmission problems. The Cherokee is the top seller for FCA.
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I would take it further and say upto 2016 there have transmission issues. Had one for 2 months and traded it for the wrangler, because of transmission issues.
 
Jeepnoub said:
I would take it further and say upto 2016 there have transmission issues. Had one for 2 months and traded it for the wrangler, because of transmission issues.
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I heard that the transmission issues were due to a problem with the design & manufacturing process by ZF (German manufacturer). Possibly a lawsuit filed against them by FCA.
 
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Moochie said:
I heard that the transmission issues were due to a problem with the design & manufacturing process by ZF (German manufacturer). Possibly a lawsuit filed against them by FCA.
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I've heard a few stories. We really liked the car too. And there tons of people who don't have issues. My wife came home after a long trip and told me she doesn't feel safe driving it with the issues it had. I decided it wasn't worth the risk. So we traded it.
 
Are any of y'all concerned that this will mean bad things for the next Wrangler. I'd like to think it will be as capable as the JK, but a broke car company with existing safety issues trying to save money on the vehicle I love gives me the shakes.
 
Apparently the Wrangler is now only the fourth-best selling Jeep, behind the Cherokee lines and even the Renegade.

I don't like where these issues are pushing Fiat, as long as they own Jeep:
  • More dependent on light trucks (Jeep and Ram) than any other major manufacturer - 78% of their US sales, 90% of their profit
  • More than $6.5 billion in debt even after selling Ferrari for almost $1 billion
  • So they have the worst fuel economy of any major automaker, and Fiat "doesn't have the resources to fulfill the emissions requirements"
  • Previous attempts to cut emissions (9-speed transmission) contributed to the quality problems that put Fiat at the bottom of the industry in perceived quality
That adds up to pressure to wring the Jeep brand for short-term profit, especially at the expense of vehicles like the Wrangler, while they transition to depending more on sales of little European toys. But that strategy only works if people aren't aware of Fiat's flagging commitment to the brand. If you're at all concerned about Fiat, consider signing this petition and sharing it.
 
I know this is a digression, but for me, the newest Jeep I will probably ever own, is already a few years old.
Good Day and God Bless.

Galo.
 
NerfHerder said:
Apparently the Wrangler is now only the fourth-best selling Jeep, behind the Cherokee lines and even the Renegade.

I don't like where these issues are pushing Fiat, as long as they own Jeep:
  • More dependent on light trucks (Jeep and Ram) than any other major manufacturer - 78% of their US sales, 90% of their profit
  • More than $6.5 billion in debt even after selling Ferrari for almost $1 billion
  • So they have the worst fuel economy of any major automaker, and Fiat "doesn't have the resources to fulfill the emissions requirements"
  • Previous attempts to cut emissions (9-speed transmission) contributed to the quality problems that put Fiat at the bottom of the industry in perceived quality
That adds up to pressure to wring the Jeep brand for short-term profit, especially at the expense of vehicles like the Wrangler, while they transition to depending more on sales of little European toys. But that strategy only works if people aren't aware of Fiat's flagging commitment to the brand. If you're at all concerned about Fiat, consider signing this petition and sharing it.
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So don't buy one. What's your point?
 
Well, while it's true that the Cherokee is outselling the Wrangler domestically, the Renegade isn't even close (60K units vs. Wrangler's 202K).

The Wrangler is a cash cow compared to the Cherokee or the Renegade. The highline models - Rubicon, Sahara, special models like the Oscar Mike, Backcountry, Black Bear, - make even more for the company. Consider, also, the aftermarket parts, service and repairs for the JK; with more than 1.2 million of them on the road, they will continue to bring money to dealerships for at least five years after the initial sales date.

It's unlikely that FCA will discontinue any of the models for the new JL.

It's also unlikely that the JL will "cater to soccer moms" for the simple reason that soccer moms aren't looking for better mileage, they're looking for space. And the 'better mileage' part of the equation in reference to soccer moms also doesn't hold water; the JK came out with a 2WD model that pretty much tanked. The cars (the 2WD Wranglers were cars, not rigs) languished on dealer lots forever unsold.

Ultimately, having a "weak entry level" unit is a non-starter. EPA regs are for fleets, not for individual models. The Renegade, 4 cylinder Cherokee, and the last of the Patriot & Compasses make it possible for Wranglers to all come with the 6 cylinder and the GCs to be equipped with the V8s.

Diesels, turbo 4-cylinders, and a 6-cylinder have all been hinted (strongly) at for the new JL. Historically, there were quite a few 4 cylinder Wranglers made compared to 6 cylinder models.

I would imagine that there's a strong chance that we're going to see more JLs coming with packages I'm not particularly thrilled with. I can drive a manual, I like the torque of a diesel. I would imagine the chances of finding that combo (if it's offered) in Southern California will be by special order. Virtually every dealer orders automatics exclusively around here. I would imagine a top seller would continue to be the 4-door 6-cylinder automatic, but I'd also bet that a 2-door 4-cylinder turbo automatic would be a strong seller as well - especially if it's offered with a Rio Grande or S package that keys in at a starting price of around $23K and gets 22/28mpg.
 
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shawnebell said:
Well, while it's true that the Cherokee is outselling the Wrangler domestically, the Renegade isn't even close (60K units vs. Wrangler's 202K).

The Wrangler is a cash cow compared to the Cherokee or the Renegade. The highline models - Rubicon, Sahara, special models like the Oscar Mike, Backcountry, Black Bear, - make even more for the company. Consider, also, the aftermarket parts, service and repairs for the JK; with more than 1.2 million of them on the road, they will continue to bring money to dealerships for at least five years after the initial sales date.

It's unlikely that FCA will discontinue any of the models for the new JL.

It's also unlikely that the JL will "cater to soccer moms" for the simple reason that soccer moms aren't looking for better mileage, they're looking for space. And the 'better mileage' part of the equation in reference to soccer moms also doesn't hold water; the JK came out with a 2WD model that pretty much tanked. The cars (the 2WD Wranglers were cars, not rigs) languished on dealer lots forever unsold.

Ultimately, having a "weak entry level" unit is a non-starter. EPA regs are for fleets, not for individual models. The Renegade, 4 cylinder Cherokee, and the last of the Patriot & Compasses make it possible for Wranglers to all come with the 6 cylinder and the GCs to be equipped with the V8s.

Diesels, turbo 4-cylinders, and a 6-cylinder have all been hinted (strongly) at for the new JL. Historically, there were quite a few 4 cylinder Wranglers made compared to 6 cylinder models.

I would imagine that there's a strong chance that we're going to see more JLs coming with packages I'm not particularly thrilled with. I can drive a manual, I like the torque of a diesel. I would imagine the chances of finding that combo (if it's offered) in Southern California will be by special order. Virtually every dealer orders automatics exclusively around here. I would imagine a top seller would continue to be the 4-door 6-cylinder automatic, but I'd also bet that a 2-door 4-cylinder turbo automatic would be a strong seller as well - especially if it's offered with a Rio Grande or S package that keys in at a starting price of around $23K and gets 22/28mpg.
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Cool. Welcome to WAL.
 
Hopefully we can look back at all this and realize it was all needless worry. Again the key word here is HOPE...like I HOPE they don't mess with a winning recipe in the Wrangler
 
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