These guys/gals amaze me!

[jnabird333]

I woke up to a new article on Allpar-news "Toledo torpedoes labor contract".

After all the fighting to keep their precious Jeep, now this? In fairness, I am too disconnected to know all of the ins-and-outs of the contract but it does bring up my disdain for unions.

The article:

Workers at the Toledo Assembly Complex have overwhelmingly rejected the proposed labor agreement between Fiat Chrysler and the United Auto Workers union.

According to a report in this morning’s Toledo Blade, UAW Local 12 President Bruce Baumhower said the rejection was “big time.” The Detroit News estimated that 87% of production employees and 80% of skilled trades workers voted against the pact.
The Detroit Free Press reports that union workers at the Sterling Heights Assembly Plant also rejected the deal by a wide margin. An unnamed source told the Freep that 72% of assembly line workers and 65% of skilled trades employees said “No.”

Belvidere Assembly and Warren Stamping with a total of five locals vote today, but unless the contract passes by a huge margin in those facilities, the contract will not be ratified.

In 2011 Belvidere Local 1268 decisively rejected that contract which ultimately passed by a slim margin.

Anticipating a likely defeat, the union has called for a meeting of all local leaders on Thursday.

UAW national leaders could call for a re-vote, but the margins reported so far, which are running almost 2-to-1 against the deal, mean it is unlikely that a second vote would win ratification.

The union could also decide to extend the current contract and return to the bargaining table or call for a strike, which has already been approved by union members.

Failure to win ratification could be a serious blow to UAW President Dennis Williams whose close personal relationship with Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne has already become an issue on social media.

Rank-and-file members are unhappy with the contract’s failure to address the two-tier wage system and the transition of Tier 2 employees to Tier 1. They are also unhappy that the contract doesn’t include specific product commitments. Product plans were a hot button issue for workers in Toledo concerned about the proposed reassignment of the Jeep Cherokee to the Belvidere plant as it could negatively impact employment in Toledo.

Fiat Chrysler is not the only company facing labor troubles. The UAW has given Ford Motor Company a five-day notice of a strike at the Kansas City plant that assembles the F-150 pickup.

In an announcement sent to the media Tuesday evening, UAW Ford Vice President Jimmy Settles said that Ford has not negotiated in good faith in talks over a local contract for the plant. Local contracts are separate from the national contract and deal with issues related to a specific plant.

The F-series is a crucial product for the Dearborn-based automaker as it accounts for more than 30% of total sales with the F-150 taking the lion’s share of those deliveries.

 

[JK_Dave]

IMO unions had their place once upon a time but more often than not are just selfish burdens on US production manufacturers.

 

[jnabird333]

IMO unions had their place once upon a time but more often than not are just selfish burdens on US production manufacturers.

I agree. I know there was a time and place but not now... at least in their current operating form. I am in a BUCH of factories. I hate visiting union shops. Yu can't fart without someone filing a grievance. Funny thing is, if they would get their lazy asses off the golf cart, I wouldn't do their F-ing job!

The problem is with the fact that there is evidence of the desegregation of the middle class along with the demise of the unions. I do feel cooperate profits have become too top heavy, but I don't feel a union fixes this problem. Honestly, I'm not sure what does. Expensive union labor by people that are so protected they no longer work, only makes America less competitive on the global market.

 

[jeepster95]

Right On the money jnabird, the Union is and was a good thing in theory but has become a top heavy ice berg about to cripple the middle class of manufacturing. as a person who deals with union shop also it gets disgusting seeing millwrights sleeping during their work shift. I know they are there for emergency breakdowns but common at least clean your area or fix somthing broken....

 

[Mountainjk10]

I agree. I know there was a time and place but not now... at least in their current operating form. I am in a BUCH of factories. I hate visiting union shops. Yu can't fart without someone filing a grievance. Funny thing is, if they would get their lazy asses off the golf cart, I wouldn't do their F-ing job!

The problem is with the fact that there is evidence of the desegregation of the middle class along with the demise of the unions. I do feel cooperate profits have become too top heavy, but I don't feel a union fixes this problem. Honestly, I'm not sure what does. Expensive union labor by people that are so protected they no longer work, only makes America less competitive on the global market.

Not all unions are bad and not all union workers are lazy. Have you ever seen a lazy ups driver? I haven't. Unions have their place if run correctly. Teamsters local 830.

 

[jnabird333]

Not all unions are bad and not all union workers are lazy. Have you ever seen a lazy ups driver? I haven't. Unions have their place if run correctly. Teamsters local 830.

I never said all union workers are lazy, but we will have to disagree that not all unions are bad. The only people to ever disagree with me on this are in unions :thinking:

Fact, no union operates as a non-profit. So, whose interest do they really have? They are just another business selling a "service".

 

[Mountainjk10]

I never said all union workers are lazy, but we will have to disagree that not all unions are bad. The only people to ever disagree with me on this are in unions :thinking:

Fact, no union operates as a non-profit. So, whose interest do they really have? They are just another business selling a "service".

I'm not implying that you did say that. More or less going off your lazy quote. I'm not sure if unions claim to be non profit but I agree that they're selling a service, and that's protection. For example, I had a severe fall while doing my job and my union contract protected me from loosing my job while I was in rehabilitation for 4 months. Most blue collar workers lose their job in that situation without representation.

 

[shadowpaige64507]

I'm not implying that you did say that. More or less going off your lazy quote. I'm not sure if unions claim to be non profit but I agree that they're selling a service, and that's protection. For example, I had a severe fall while doing my job and my union contract protected me from loosing my job while I was in rehabilitation for 4 months. Most blue collar workers lose their job in that situation without representation.

FMLA will keep you from loosing your job in that situation for someone in that same position not in a union

 

[trailless]

FMLA will keep you from loosing your job in that situation for someone in that same position not in a union

Also the company's insurance and worker's comp would have paid for medical expenses and part of the salary.

 

[jnabird333]

I'm not implying that you did say that. More or less going off your lazy quote. I'm not sure if unions claim to be non profit but I agree that they're selling a service, and that's protection. For example, I had a severe fall while doing my job and my union contract protected me from loosing my job while I was in rehabilitation for 4 months. Most blue collar workers lose their job in that situation without representation.

So, if I drop this down in scale to a small company. Let's say a landscape company with 5 employees. Your very scenario could be crippling to the company. Very few will take a temporary job knowing that when you return they will be put to the curb. Furthermore, the company has to train the new employee knowing they will not be keeping them and take on costs in doing so. If they were unable to find someone, the work that should be getting done is either pushed off onto the remaining 4 (possible overtime pay) or not getting done. It's only a matter of time before the remaining 4 get fed up and leave themselves or the work not getting done begins to effect business. Since the owner doesn't know you are returning tomorrow or for months there is a potential for them to take a drastic loss and even go out of business. Now you have no job to return to and 4 others are out of work as well.

I know my example is a bit extreme but still valid. Business is just that, business. People are paid to do work, not recover from an injury at home. There are disability insurances available to protect you and while unfortunate, you might just have to get another job.

At least that's my take on it.

 

[jnabird333]

Truth is, keeping a union out means a company can be more flexible to make changes to ones role. I have personally seen non-unions go out of their way to take people off that were out for medical issues. Although it might not be in the same role. To play the other side though; I will admit it isn't always played out this way and I acknowledge the personal security one my feel in having union protection.

 

[Texas Nick]

I have to agree. Union workers for the most part are pretty damn lazy and do half ass work.
For every hard working person in a union, I feel there are ATLEAST 25-30 people who give less of a rats ass and do bare minimum, at best.

 

[Brent McCartney]

Well I am a Union Electrician of 15 years, I am not lazy and am pretty sought after to repair complex electrical systems. Just remember on your next weekend off, that a union. Electrician fought and died for you to have a 40 hour work week.

 

[JerseyJK]

I'm a union pipe fitter and I can tell you one thing. After 18 years of working with no Union, working for 3 companies in that time, the longest being for 15 years, I am glad I am a union member and thank them every chance I get.

Having a voice especially being that I have been through some of the worst bosses in the world I can't explain how nice it is to have a muzzle on the bosses that get off by destroying someone's career.

Are all unions good? Hell no. Look at that union that pushed GMC into bankruptcy. That's a bad union. I'm a union worker for a gas utility and every day I risk my life responding to gas leaks that can destroy a persons life in seconds. I'm glad my union fights to keep us as safe as they can and make sure we have the best safety gear.

 

[jnabird333]

Well I am a Union Electrician of 15 years, I am not lazy and am pretty sought after to repair complex electrical systems. Just remember on your next weekend off, that a union. Electrician fought and died for you to have a 40 hour work week.

I'm curious where you are going with this? The 8 hour work day was set by American Labor Act during the industrial revolution but the number of days was not defined. Something you may not know is that The Ford Motor Company advanced the idea in 1914, when it scaled back from a 48-hour to a 40-hour workweek after founder Henry Ford believed that too many hours were bad for workers’ productivity. He did this without being man handled my a union.

For me, I am salary. Some weeks that means very few hours and other weeks that means much more than 40. I set my schedule and enjoy the flexibility. I don't owe an electrician or anyone for the life I live (besides my wife).

 

[MTG]

Because this "discussion" will go nowhere, I'm just going to leave this here...

 

[jnabird333]

Because this "discussion" will go nowhere, I'm just going to leave this here...

View attachment 167139

LOL, I was just thinking to myself, why did I post this.... :doh: No one is changing my mind and I will not change anyone's. I kinda feel like an :asshat: in hindsight.

 

[Brent McCartney]

I'm curious where you are going with this? The 8 hour work day was set by American Labor Act during the industrial revolution but the number of days was not defined. Something you may not know is that The Ford Motor Company advanced the idea in 1914, when it scaled back from a 48-hour to a 40-hour workweek after founder Henry Ford believed that too many hours were bad for workers’ productivity. He did this without being man handled my a union.

For me, I am salary. Some weeks that means very few hours and other weeks that means much more than 40. I set my schedule and enjoy the flexibility. I don't owe an electrician or anyone for the life I live (besides my wife).

Henry Miller was the founding idea man of the 40 hour week in 1908, if my history serves me correctly, but not all of us Union members are lazy slobs filing griviences for every thing under the sun. That is where I'm going with that.

My father was a Uaw skilled tradesman for 37 years, in Flint Mi, at the BOC plant. By that little snip it of an article you cannot gain a clear picture of the scope of the negotiations.

Just my opinion.

 

[trailraider]

I have yet to meet anyone who thinks they are "lazy" in their job.

 

[jnabird333]

There is no reason for anyone to get butt-hurt. I have already stated that no where did I say all union workers are lazy. However, I stand behind my opinion that of the ones I have dealt with, most were. The environment seemed to breed this behavior as only the young workers were hungry and willing.

The great thing about America is you can be in a union if you want to be, and you can stay out of one if you prefer that as well. My my opinion many auto unions shit where they eat. And while I admitted to not knowing the full details in my OP, it was the way I took the article.

I don't hold grudges, toward those who think differently than me. Actually, I like talking to those who do as it often broadens my views. Still, this thread seems headed down hill so I will likely no chat any more on the topic.

:beer::beer::beer: