Pro's and Cons of Axle width and Diff placement

[1RNGR]

In ordering new 1-ton axles I have some choices to make. I am looking for input about width WMS and which side to put the diff on or to put it in the center. I kind of like the diff sitting underneath me as the driver but I'm open to hear arguments to put it on passenger side. As for width, I am mostly on steep terrain and off camber hill sides. I don't plan to go RCV axle shafts. The shaft in this is Yukon 4340 with Superjoints (Standard). I don't have any experience with superjoints so if you do, please share. This axle is made from scratch, in-house in TN by Crane Axle with USA chromoly steel kingpins. Also, one more question, as to Pinion Yoke for JTR , are we 1350, 1410, or 1480?




My rear axle only has a choice of putting it in the middle in case that is a factor?

 

[OverlanderJK]

Unless you are going full custom buggy you don’t have a choice where the diff is.

 

[1RNGR]

Unless you are going full custom buggy you don’t have a choice where the diff is.

I'm dumb, of course the current drive line in the JTR determines where the diff is located. Driver side it is. At least now that's one less variable to deal with.

 

[CalSgt]

In ordering new 1-ton axles I have some choices to make. I am looking for input about width WMS and which side to put the diff on or to put it in the center.

Overlander answered this, diff locations are dictated by the transfer case output.

As for width, I am mostly on steep terrain and off camber hill sides.

With wider axles the possibility to run wheels more backspacing opens up which results in better scrub radius. Correct scrub radius makes turning easier, and reduces stress on ball joints and hub bearings. I don't know what the downside of wider axles is though.

ETA: The Axle MFG should be able to tell you what backspace wheel combined with the tire height will be "zero" scrub radius because scrub radius is dictated by the angle of the ball joints or king pin.

I don't plan to go RCV axle shafts. The shaft in this is Yukon 4340 with Superjoints (Standard). I don't have any experience with superjoints so if you do, please share. This axle is made from scratch, in-house in TN by Crane Axle with USA chromoly steel kingpins.

I think superjoints are more in Snoop Dogg's arena... But really I think that's just Yukon's marketing name for their HD ujoints.

Also, one more question, as to Pinion Yoke for JTR , are we 1350, 1410, or 1480?

AFAIK, the stock axles use flanges (not yokes) at the front and rear pinion. This is a you choose thing because you will most likely need new custom driveshafts anyway. Bigger is bigger... 1350's are a strength upgrade over 1310's but some driveshaft shops will warn that the bigger joints are more likely to have some vibration and will be more sensitive to being slightly out of phase. My 1350's don't vibrate and have held up to a few years of abuse and daily driving with no complaints. 1410's & 1480's are bigger yet

 

[CalSgt]

Also check these guys too... IIRC they are a USA axle MFG and sell them as ready to bolt on crate axles with all required bracketry and will even set them up for EVO long arms and other suspension options

https://fusion4x4.com/

 

[1RNGR]

The only downside I can image to wider has to do with trail width, but it seems like 68" vs 72" is only 4" and I am thinking not many spot will be down to just inches. I say that and then I remember touching rock on both sides when I last did Rubicon, so I guess width would have mattered on that trail, but I just would have taken another line with the 72" or climbed up on the rock some?

 

[CalSgt]

The only downside I can image to wider has to do with trail width, but it seems like 68" vs 72" is only 4" and I am thinking not many spot will be down to just inches. I say that and then I remember touching rock on both sides when I last did Rubicon, so I guess width would have mattered on that trail, but I just would have taken another line with the 72" or climbed up on the rock some?

The width can be negated slightly with the increased backspace.

 

[benatc1]

One downside to 72” axles, and maybe not a deal breaker is axle shaft availability, while rare it could be harder to source a proper width axle shaft, but if you have good service and supply from your vendor then it might mitigate that.

 

[1RNGR]

I am comparing the two very hard. It's between Fusion and Crane. They both have lifetime warranties, do bolt on setups for Lifts and rigs. Crane is very specific about their axles steel which is 8620 chromoly made in USA, I have to find out from Fusion steel. Fusion set is 3.5" x .5" tubes, Crane is 4" x .5 " tubes. Crane is 8620 chromoly on Diff, Tubes, Inner C and Knuckles, but I don't have an answer yet about Fusion Steel. Fusion includes 2.5 ton steering with lifetime warranty, Crane is Bring your own steering but they Bore to your specific specs or ship and let you Bore. Fusion option is D60, crane is 13 bolt front and rear. Crane option without ( drag link and tie rods) = $15,930. Fusion includes steering and is $18,690. Fusion does have a non-kingpin, ball joint D60 option which is $15,930 complete and includes steering. All these options have E-Lockers. Both have upgrades to 40 spline but that limits me to ARB Air Lockers and I'm not a fan of those. In talking to WFO Concepts, Trevor doesn't actually like my idea of going with Kingpins and wants me to go Dana Spicers so there is a chance he might talk me into the Fusion without kingpin. With all parts, drive shafts, parts and labor, with PSC hydraulic steering, WFO is quoting total costs including axles depending on choice of $30 to 35K installed. It's basically like buying another car. Part of me is wondering if I want an ultimately capable street legal rig, or If I leave the JT on Dana 44's and put that 30K into a buggy and pull the buggy when I need to do the sketchy terrain. Sorry for Rant... but thinking others might go down this same rabbit hole and want to share what info I have.

 

[benatc1]

Are you considering ultimate Dana 60? And Dana 60 ball joints are worlds stronger than the Dana 44s so I wouldn’t be too scared of ball joints on a 60, but That’s a tough choice, and a lot of coin. But even at 18k for axles, 3k for steering, maybe 1500 for drive shafts, that’s between like 8-12k for labors, which seems absurd, if your including wheels/new tires in that, maybe not so bad, plus your recoup some money on your current/wheels tires/axles.

 

[1RNGR]

PSC Adventure Steering Kit for 2020 and Newer Jeep JL/JT 3.6L $3150. ​

I will update the whole build sheet as I get details if people are interested. Maybe the right place to do that is to start a build thread? ​

 

[1RNGR]

The only American made UD60 options I've found are Fusion and Dynatrac makes most of theirs in USA but way long wait time. DS Trac is cheapest axles but imports and WFO will only install them on time and materials as they don't have any experience with them.

 

[benatc1]

PSC Adventure Steering Kit for 2020 and Newer Jeep JL/JT 3.6L $3150. ​

I will update the whole build sheet as I get details if people are interested. Maybe the right place to do that is to start a build thread? ​

Yea def start a thread, no idea of your mechanic skills but you might be able to install some of this stuff yourself and save a lot of money too. Between recouping on parts, may make it not hurt so bad lol.

 

[benatc1]

The only American made UD60 options I've found are Fusion and Dynatrac makes most of theirs in USA but way long wait time. DS Trac is cheapest axles but imports and WFO will only install them on time and materials as they don't have any experience with them.

Yea I hear you on American made, are the spicer Ultimate Dana 60s not US made? I don’t actually know, maybe know certain parts of it? but maybe be readily available and a strong option depending on everything you want.

 

[1RNGR]

Yea def start a thread, no idea of your mechanic skills but you might be able to install some of this stuff yourself and save a lot of money too. Between recouping on parts, may make it not hurt so bad lol.

I do have some mechanical skills , and tools, and access to a lift. But having never done one of these, it's a bit of a daunting task to take on. I am honest enough to say it's a bit intimidating a task to do the first time, knowing that I sometimes am 100 miles or more from blacktop and need to rely on this rig.

 

[1RNGR]

Yea I hear you on American made, are the spicer Ultimate Dana 60s not US made? I don’t actually know, maybe know certain parts of it? but maybe be readily available and a strong option depending on everything you want.

Dana Spicer is Brazil as far as I can find out.

 

[benatc1]

I do have some mechanical skills , and tools, and access to a lift. But having never done one of these, it's a bit of a daunting task to take on. I am honest enough to say it's a bit intimidating a task to do the first time, knowing that I sometimes am 100 miles or more from blacktop and need to rely on this rig.

Yea for sure, it is a big project to take on, it’s very important to know your limits and be realistic with your self, or else trouble could ensure. but I will say if you take your time, use resources, it wouldn’t be as bad as you think, and what better way to help yourself when you have an issue when you’re that far off road than knowing your rig in and out because you built it. Having said that I wouldn’t want to wrestle those 60s into place, all alone

but if you are ordering from fusion I think you can get it with a lot of the bracketry already welded, may help too.

 

[CalSgt]

Don’t even consider the DStrac axles…

I think there is a thread somewhere on here showing their “quality” or lack there of.

really, I’m not sure what WFO includes for 30k but check this out:

I’m talking out my ass here because I’ve never installed crate axles but I bet I could get following done with a floor jack, jack stands, and hand tools in a weekend or less. It’s all bolt on stuff, if you’ve got tools, moderate intelligence, and the right attitude it’s a simple job.

Summit Racing retails the UD60 axles and I didn’t dig too deep but I think they are in stock at Sparks with 5.38’s and elockers.

Order a set of Spicer drive shafts from Summit or have Driveline and Gear service make them once your axles are in so you can measure.

Driveshafts 1200-1500 tops, mine were about $1100 two years ago including pinion yokes (you won’t need).

Call Polyperformance for Synergy steering, it’s made in SLO California. Disciple Off road can probably help here too, I’d bet he can retail Synergy or RPM which is US made too.

The PSC kit isn’t mandatory immediately but would be a good idea for sooner rather than later.

rear axle $8500
Front axle $9500
Drive shafts $1500
Steering $1000
*$20,500
Reno sales tax $1701
$22,201

Tires $450-$550 each discount tire in Reno
Wheels $400ish to sky’ limit

5 Nitto TG’s 40x13.5 17 $2750
5 KMC grenades $2830 (Summit in stock)
*$5580
Tax $463.18
$6044

+ $750 for fluids, small hardware, incidentals

Grand total $29K (without PSC)